[Scotteq]

Started suspecting something was up over the weekend, when through our H Naxx run a lot of people were an awful lot closer to me on Omen than the usual 30~40% of my total. Not enough to be concerned, but trash pulls were noticably rougher.

Ran a bunch of Heroics today, and Yah - I am definitely seeing a significant reduction in both TPS and DPS - In Heroics, I usually sustain 5K TPS or higher, but now am working hard to get to 3 or 4K. And the usual 1500~1600+ DPS is also down to 12~1400. My crit rate seems down slightly, I can't help but suspect bonus damage has somehow suffered since Deep Wounds damage has also dropped from 15~20% to 4~5% of my total.

Something changed, for sure. And not for the better. Dropping the Impale/Deep Wounds build and going back to a more standard one for the time being. Hoping it's a bug, and that the respec will somehow magically fix it....

[Alkaladar]

Source: Muffin Man Ya, basically why I'm assuming this is a bug somewhere (that and the fact that more than one poster has said this). I noticed there was a new patch today (with no notes). Maybe it's a minor bug fix? Or maybe I'm crazy and there was no patch.

We can only hope and pray... without the praying.

[Alkaladar]

Source: Kazeyonoma It was just an option, it seems that threat does pose a problem to the people in this thread so there very well may be a problem with warrior threat but I personally have not seen a problem in both dps or tps decreasing post 3.0.8.

The deathknight tanks in our guild are still hitting and staying at 6-8k, while im at 5 or just a little over. Only by pure force of will am i able to stay ahead, that and they are sensible enough not to surpas me. If its showing correct threat for our DKs, and my shield slams again are not showing the correct amount of threat, and other tanks are having the same prob. assumptions can only be made.

[Rhyseh]

I'll be running some 25's tonight, I'll analyse the reports afterward and have a look.

[Danach]

I'll check mine tonight as well, though just quickly browsing my wws between last week, and the week before, they are pretty close. My crit rate last week on some fights seemed very low, but it looks more like just bad rng luck than anything there.

[Alkaladar]

no change to my threat. Still in the 4-5s.

[maexio]

Ran 2 Wings of Naxx (10) last night... Noticed a minor increase in DPS and TPS from the last time, although still seems low from pre 3.0.8.

Tomorrow going to run more, and should be able to get a better feel for threat and damage with more comparisons to make.

[friznit]

I came here specifically to start a thread on this after finishing Naxx25 again last night. In short, I'm suddenly having to work much harder at dps and threat than I did a week ago. I've not compared wws reports yet, but it's painfully obvious that something has changed quite drastically.

For the record, I'm using the Deep Wounds spec, almost (but not quite yet) Expertise dodge 'capped', glyphed with blocking, revenge and sunder and normally switch gear to prioritise dodge/def or block/tps depending on the fight. Apart from still only having Red Sword of Courage, there's no reason why I shouldn't be putting out more than enough TPS to hold bosses, and yet I was struggling over the course of this raid even when staying in full TPS gear.

By far the worst case (and most embarrasing) was Thadius - starting the fight with a full rage bar so no excuses there, but after 2 or 3 rotations our Paladin OT was shooting through the roof on threat whilst I was meandering around just about the dps. Frankly there was not alot I could do so he MT'd the fight in the end but neither of us could work out why. We even went back to our training dummies (we use elite mobs in icecrown, not the ones in Org) to check my rotations and gear but couldn't find anything out of the ordinary.

Can anyone give some insight into this? Why has warrior suddenly TPS gone down significantly compared to other classes?

[Alkaladar]

No one knows mate, allot has been thrown around. There is a clear problem, we wouldn't have this many complaints had there not been an issue. Blizz has not said anything and when ive posted on the war forums ive been ridiculed.

cheers.

[Marah]

true, dps decrease, for me ~200 dps. first i thought it was just me playing distracted, but it wasn't that. i constantly had less dps, both in 5-man and in naxx 10. as soon as i renew my subscription, i'll come back with some data. what i'm already sure about is that DW ticks for the same amount as pre 3.0.8.

[Law]

I too have noticed a dramatic downgrade in DPS (not QQ'ing, just stating facts). Normally I am top DPS for raids/most fights, however I am now hovering around 3-5th or less depending on classes there that compliment with buffs (This is not a reduction from just eg Beastmaster Hunters being in the Raid).

I made a post also on the Warrior US forums and I gather it may not be just us, could be Rogues and maybe feral druids. Would be interesting to see if DK's and Paladins (Melee) are also affected.

There was a suggestion that it could be buffing of armour on lvl 73 elites and in theory could be a step towards armour penetration having a greater role.

Hi to Everybody at Tankspot! Keep up the awesome work, I have been an avid reader for years, this is my first post, I felt it important to join in the discusion.

Lâw
Armory Link (one on my profile is glitched due to having silly characters in my name!)

[Xav]

Haven't noticed a single change, exactly the same feel I've always had. Try again!

Also to the tank saying they regularly had deep wounds as 15-20% of their total damage, no. Just no. You would only reach that in like extremely high crit/dps gear using aoe attacks on trash. 5-10% is more like the average.

[Krondox]

I was worried that like a few others here I have been doing something wrong since patch. In a pug I was struggling to hold aggro on heroic boss's. In my guild runs I could not keep the aggro off of our DK. I though and became very irritated with the DK because I figured he was using his "attack me" button. I guess not. Just though I would add my two cents.


P.S.
Great website, first time post long time reader. Thanks for all the great information.

[Domathan]

Also noticed a drop in DPS.
At first i fought it was because of the terrible lag and therfore bad rotation.

Also checked the gear. It's like the mobs having more armor :/

[Bullwerk]

DPS and TPS drop since 3.0.8 is very noticeable. I haven't said anything to my guild or other tanks as I was thinking maybe I was off my game but apparently not. Trash is near impossible with an Pally OT. Mobs I'm going all out on are being stripped away by his AoE threat if I'm not careful and forget trying to hold more than one in a pack. Bosses are doable but the threat margin is really low even with vigilance up.

As for DPS... well lets say I finally got the gear I needed in order to be soft cap expertise and picked up several hundred more BV but my DPS on Patch DROPPED by 300 despite improving my gear. I was hitting everything I could to keep the DPS up (hell my hand was giving me fits at the end of the 3 minutes) and I was still down. I have noticed much to my frustration that DW is up almost never compared to before. Not sure if my realized crit is lower or if it isn't proccing on every crit, I'll have to check.

Blizz needs to fix this as Pally and DK tanks are now not just besting us in TPS by a manageable margin but utterly destroying us. I've heard many complaints from people here and outside of TS as well. I enjoy having to work to be a good tank but unannounced lopsided changes (even if they are caused by bugs) are not acceptable.

[Ronninn]

I've noticed this as well with certain tanks in my guild. Our main tank switched out of Vigilance and into deep wounds to bring his dps up, and his theory was that the extra dps would counteract not having vigilance. His dps went up significantly, but I found I had to be a little more careful with my dps since being a fury warrior I'm almost always the highest threat non-tank. After the 3.0.8 patch though, it's been frustrating how fast I catch him on the agro list and I've had to stop my rotation, or even stop swinging completly.


As a comparison, we have a new tank in our guild that's gear is decent but not as good as the main tank, but he is spec'd into Vigilance instead of deep wounds, and I can't catch him in threat. I've tried to subtly bring this up but I get the feeling I've been ignored, or they don't believe me, or they think that I should wait longer before starting my rotation. Maybe I should cool it a bit, but I think if there is a prot warrior off-tank in the guild with lesser gear that can hold better agro than the MT, then perhaps there is an issue outside of how soon I start my rotation.


I'm hoping that he at least tries to spec back into vigilance to see if it helps with his threat since I think after GC stated they'd been thinking of nerfing Deep Wounds a bit that something may have been hotfixed in without anyone knowing any better.


Anyhow, I'll try running a few test with my buddy who is the off-tank and see if I can come to any conclusions. Perhaps he'll spec deep wounds and I can show the MT the test data we've come up with and something can be done about it.


Has anyone noticed similar things to this about deep wounds vs. vigilance?

[Alkaladar]

Source: Xav Haven't noticed a single change, exactly the same feel I've always had. Try again! Also to the tank saying they regularly had deep wounds as 15-20% of their total damage, no. Just no. You would only reach that in like extremely high crit/dps gear using aoe attacks on trash. 5-10% is more like the average.

It doesn't seem to be affecting everyone, or there would be more posts. But when guildies are asking you what you are doing differently, "have you changed your spec, your dps and threat are heaps lower" kinda talk. Backed up by now almost 3 pages of queries, It is just hard to pawn it on noobishness. The chances that everyone here in the 1 night that the patch was released had such a drastic change in skill that they were running at noticiably lower threat and dps, is now just as crazy as sugesting all of us are doing something wrong.

[humwawa]

So doing a little more digging some are claiming that it is due to a stance bug, in that if you are D stance when you enter the instance, you won't get the threat multiplier. Stance dancing should fix this. Pally's seem to have a similar bug with Righteous Fury- if I apply it before entering the instance it doesn't seem to work right, or completely disappears. Still, this doesn't explain the DPS decrease, though that may be a separate cause.

[Krondox]

Source: Ronninn Has anyone noticed similar things to this about deep wounds vs. vigilance?

I was running an instance earlier, same situation happening. aggro pulled really fast off of me. Ret pally was to blame. I put a vigilance on him and it seemed to work out better in my favor, though he still was pulling aggro on group trash mobs.

[Juon]

The best way to know the difference is for someone to have a log of a raid/heroic before 3.08 and then capture one for the same instance.

By comparing the 2 webstats, we will be able to pinpoint the differences. Even if there are some gear changes, it can be factored in. The rotations and should be similiar on same encounters, the reults will show if there is a dip in the avg dmg output for each skill.