[Mythonos]

Source: Kelython I've had to do this much more often now adays... not getting enuff RP for starting it right off the bat, and I used to wait for buttlust to do it, but i noticed a big difference from starting off with CD's and using right when they get off cd. ERW is a godsend.

Well it can go both ways. You can get lucky and have everything proc right at that moment at the beggining, making my strat completely worth it. Or nothing procs and you do it anyway, but either way I think it's better than sitting there for 5-6 seconds auto attacking. Especially during fights where you need quick bursts at the beggining.

[Luvutodeath]

Hey thanx skyi, I appreciate the help... I adjusted my rotation and that alone of course with the added gems has increased my DPS.

[Kruciall]

I finally bumped into another dk that dw's. I checked out his gear and gave a little chuckle, because I could tell from looking at looking at what he had that he didn't have the minimum expertise or hit needed as per the first page. I out-gear him by a considerable amount, which of course doesn't always matter, but I thought with my gear and having what I thought was required to perform the best, that I would top him in dps. Well, I was wrong. I've always had a problem gaining dps, it always took a little while to make its way to the top. This guy would instantly go in with much higher dps, and would keep it there. It's really got me confused. After an encounter with Gormok I check out recount to compare our stats. I had around 9% missed hits compared to his 19%. Funny thing is, he out dps'd me by around 800. Now, I tossed a lot of armor pen gems in my gear just to see how it would work out, and I'm gonna replace them with str next time I hop on, but even with all the arp gems, he doesn't have that much str over me. He's also using a a build that isn't any of the ones one the first page. I asked him before we got started what his hit and exp were, and he told me they were 16 exp and 280 hit. I've worked hard to get my exp and hit up and now it looks like I don't even need it as high as I've got it. Here's my link followed with his below.

The World of Warcraft Armory

The World of Warcraft Armory


He's also got a faster offhand weapon, that wouldn't make that much of a difference would it?

[Krenian]

A note to readers and commentors:

If you see something that's interesting to talk about and to debate, or some changes in some talent builds I must of missed somehow, please feel free to put it in here so we can see and discuss the whole thing. It'll make this thread a whole lot more active and it will also alleviate a lot of the work needed to update the main thread by simply proactively working together into making a great DK guide. I've put a lot of work into this but I would appreciate the help due to my now greater than average workload.

[CIKShock]

Okay, I'm new but I've been following guides on this website for some time now as they are the most up-to-date and easiest to understand in my opinion. I've got a holy/prot pally which I pretty much use for raiding as my guild is small (10 man Ulduar up to keepers is just about all the further we've gotten, with 10 man Ony and VoA getting cleared most weeks).

I am getting a DK for dps/off-tanking (or tanking heroics) but am pretty much working on the DPS side of things at the moment.

Now I use a different rotation than the one suggested here, and tend to do more dps than other guys who I think use this guide. They could have some lag or something that keeps their rotations off by just a bit, but I'm not sure if my glyphs and rotation might be superior... so here it is.

My armory link is The World of Warcraft Armory

You'll notice that I have the glyph of disease, which refreshes both frost fever and blood plague. (I cast them once and so long as I don't need to move to another spot and can't get back to the boss during the duration I don't need to cast again)

My rotation is

IT -> PS -> Pes -> HSx1 -> DS -> DCx1 -> Horn of Winter (to increase damage of DS) -> DS -> Pes -> HSx3 (depending on CD on frost and unholy) -> DS (So that I don't end up with 4 death runes outside of blood... uses 2 would be unholy before using any would be frost)

At this point I can change up what it is that I'm using, typically at this point i've got 100 RP so I can use Hysteria + DRW and start from beginning to get extra diseases up or just wait until I've got a lot of heart strikes coming up.

I'm not sure if this is the best rotation, it's one that works for me, and it is one that doesn't break often. I find it greatly superior during trash pulls as I'm doing disease damage to everything within something like 10 yards.

My gear isn't great, but I'd say it's not bad for under 3 days at level 80. I get about 3k sustained on raids, with ones that I can use D&D (like Ony) going up to 4-4.5k. I do about 2.5-2.8k in heroics doing up to 4k on bosses, thought I don't keep to my rotation that much in heroics due to some mobs dying before I can get pes off, hence the better dps on bosses.

The longer the fight goes on the better dps compared to other blood dks I seem to get. They use that extra heart strike at the beginning and it tends to make the trash pulls make me out to be a bit lack luster in dps, but I typically do the most damage done in heroics... so idk.

Any amendments/hints to help me improve would be welcomed, but the rotation is one that I've suggested to other blood dks in my guild and their numbers have risen 300-500 on average. (Part of that can obviously be gear as we gear up though).

Anyway, thanks in advance for some constructive criticism. (But please, no criticism on gems and chants... I'm working on getting gems from farming honor and prospecting titanium, and I just don't have the rep yet to get the best enchants *head and shoulder*)

[kathmaul]

I haven't posted in a while because we are working Heroic 25/ToGC right now.

CIKShock, I tried the Glyph of Disease rotation with the Glyph and I saw a drop in overall DPS actually (in ToC).

My reasoning's:

- Beasts is the only real single target boss in ToC. Spreading your Diseases only makes it easier to down the adds with the bosses. Not just in ToC either, the hardest bosses in Ulduar all have adds (except Mim) and getting those DoTs out on those adds only helps with getting them down.

- It makes for a funky rotation. In both ToC and Ulduar you need to be paying attention to your surroundings and have raid awareness, not focusing on DoT timers and Procs. I will grant you, that when all my procs proc and I am using Glyph of Disease, I see some crazy numbers for a few seconds on Recount, but it peters out after a while and I start losing focus on what is happening around me to see when my procs proc and whatnot.

-Not having to think about your rotation is actually a DPS increase. Sure, you want to be cognizant of it to a degree, but moving when you need to move (XT debuffs or Thaddius Polarity Shifts or those damn FCs) is a greater increase than punching pest at the right moment because all of your procs procced.

However, with all of that being said, if you are comfortable with the rotation, by all means run with it. But some fights actually benefit so much from you spreading fresh diseases, for instance, Twin Valks, they share a health pool so spreading fresh diseases to both of them actually doubles your disease DPS. I pulled 8.1k on Heroic 25/Twins tonight and all I can say about that is that I was shocked to be so high up on them on the meters. 8.1k was my peak, I was an average of 7.7k on 6 attempts before we downed them.

btw, I run the 51/0/20 with points in the ghoul instead of BCB. Going over Recount and World of Logs, BCB was just too low on my percentages to warrant spending 3 points on it when I can use the 90 sec Ghoul for more burst.

[bucky570]

Im trying to figure out bout my frost dps spec if i have the gear to do the damage needed to do h toc. this is my dk and his gear The World of Warcraft Armory

[Komatist]

Hi guys,

I have been following this forum for a long time, but only registered today. I find your guides a tremendous help!

One question, how well do you have to be geared to pull off a Blood build like the one on the first page?

At the current moment I am using that build and I get +-3k DPS with my current gear. I know I am rather undergeared at the moment, but I am trying to farm heroics for badges.

If anyone has any suggestions, please let me know!

My Armory link : The World of Warcraft Armory

[Karhazn]

You mention in the main post to pick up glyph of SS (this way you can keep up the SS spam from the old 3.0-3.2 days of unholy dks) you also in the spec have people pick up reaping. All of these things would be great, if SS was the highest hitting ability that Unholy DKs had to them. That ability, however, goes to the much less valued Death Coil (making up, in many cases, around 10% or more of an unholy death knight's damage). So, instead of the spec that you had put up 17/0/54 which focuses on having death runes and using SS much more frequently, you might want to consider adding/editing in 16/0/55 which moves points from Reaping, to Dirge (to generate the extra RP for more DCs). Also removing Epidemic to give you extra talent points to fill out Outbreak (for extra SS damage, which will be more important than longer lasting diseases which will be refreshed in every rotation before the time expires on them) and add Morbidity (which adds more to the DC damage done) then using the remainder of the points in Dark Conviction (which matched with the T9 4P set bonus makes diseases a much bigger player in your DPS due to the higher amount of Crits done by them). Just a few thoughts to be suggested, debated on, ect.

//KZ

[Krenian]

Source: Karhazn You mention in the main post to pick up glyph of SS (this way you can keep up the SS spam from the old 3.0-3.2 days of unholy dks) you also in the spec have people pick up reaping. All of these things would be great, if SS was the highest hitting ability that Unholy DKs had to them. That ability, however, goes to the much less valued Death Coil (making up, in many cases, around 10% or more of an unholy death knight's damage). So, instead of the spec that you had put up 17/0/54 which focuses on having death runes and using SS much more frequently, you might want to consider adding/editing in 16/0/55 which moves points from Reaping, to Dirge (to generate the extra RP for more DCs). Also removing Epidemic to give you extra talent points to fill out Outbreak (for extra SS damage, which will be more important than longer lasting diseases which will be refreshed in every rotation before the time expires on them) and add Morbidity (which adds more to the DC damage done) then using the remainder of the points in Dark Conviction (which matched with the T9 4P set bonus makes diseases a much bigger player in your DPS due to the higher amount of Crits done by them). Just a few thoughts to be suggested, debated on, ect. //KZ

This is true. The Unholy section of the guide is a little rough and definitely can be updated to add that one. However with 3.3's changes, I'm not looking to change the unholy section too much as this point will become moot due to the changes to SS.

[pixiesticks]

Guys... I am finding it extremely hard figuring out this whole dps thing. I was a DK tank back in the day and am now just coming back to wow after bout a year off. What kinda dps should i be putting out with the gear i have?
The World of Warcraft Armory

I cannot seem to be get over 2.4-2.6k dps on the target dummy with either of those builds. The rotations i use are IT-PS-BS-BS-OB-dump-OB-OB-OB-HOW-dump. The SS build i use essentially the same but substitute SS for OB. I find there is more downtime then I would like and am basically spamming OB a million time until it goes off three times. I don't know what I am doing wrong but I feel like my dps should be a lot better. Any input would be appreciated.

[PatrikL]

Source: pixiesticks Guys... I am finding it extremely hard figuring out this whole dps thing. I was a DK tank back in the day and am now just coming back to wow after bout a year off. What kinda dps should i be putting out with the gear i have? The World of Warcraft Armory I cannot seem to be get over 2.4-2.6k dps on the target dummy with either of those builds. The rotations i use are IT-PS-BS-BS-OB-dump-OB-OB-OB-HOW-dump. The SS build i use essentially the same but substitute SS for OB. I find there is more downtime then I would like and am basically spamming OB a million time until it goes off three times. I don't know what I am doing wrong but I feel like my dps should be a lot better. Any input would be appreciated.

I think those numbers sound about right unbuffed on a dummie with your gear (anyone feel free to disagree on that). In my gear which is sligthly better than yours I dont do much more than 3.3 on a dumie but in a 25 man I can do about 5k even on single targets (unholy build but one from EJ atm). Dummies in my oppinion are good for camparing gear and practising a new rotation but they dont tell the whole story. I should also mention that I rarely do more in 5 mans (except bosses) than on a dummie so raids are really the best place to test your dps out. Go beat up Patchwerk for example.

[Align]

Ok I am at my witz end I just rolled out of a 10 VOA doing 2500 dps I am really startn to hate Blood. I am getting smoked by lesser geared players some running blood others running unholy. my rotation is IT PS HSx2 DS DC dump.... DS HSx4 DC dump. Should I just dump blood and go back to unholy? I thought my gear was pretty strong but I guess not, Any ideas

Thanks. The World of Warcraft Armory

[Toushiro]

working on an ArP set, once I get all the armor slots I can and gem them for ArP i'll post how much it DPS I go up by or lose.

P.S. wouldn't you be better off with 2 points in dirge instead of improved unholy presence?

[bucky570]

for the post wanting to know bout blood ur spec is right its ur gear. first off pvp gear for pve is bad. u want to stack str. not ap. ur exp is low and ur armor pen is really low u want to shoot for 30% or more imo. and change u meta gem i recommend the 21agil and 3% crit cause it needs one of each gem so if u get a Nightmare Tear that will keep it active then stack the rest str. for better gear i would run TOC 5 man reg and heroic like crazy that will give you the gear u need to up your dps

[Kyntaero]

Hello everyone. I was hoping to get some input and good opinions if I may. I have been using this guide's Frost dw spec and rotation since the last patch. Now,there were a few times where a Blood DK would out DPS me. This past week I won the 2h sword from the twin's in ToC10 reg, so i started looking back to blood, so that i could increase my dps. I used this guide and even one from Elitest Jerks(which is always hard to understand for me), but the problem I'm having is I can't get the numbers up and I find that I'm waiting for CD's to be up so that I can continue my rotation, also from this guide. My question is: Is there a good spec for a Frost dps using a 2h weapon? I really like having frost strike, mainly because it hits soooo HARD! I'm going to link my armory and a tree that i was toying around with. Plz keep in mind as you look at my dps gear,...I going to have @ least 2 set tier 9 (prob shoulder and hands) this coming tues. I know i have some gear issues, but trust that I'm working on them. I am also aware of some stats that are low(hit, exp, etc...), but am working on those as well. I am using a hit pot when I'm in combat at least.(puts my hit @ 275)

Thanks for any help.


Kyntana's Armory:
The World of Warcraft Armory


Tree I was thinking might work:
The World of Warcraft Armory

[dkwarlord]

great advice it has really helped me alot on my dk for dps

[Krenian]

Source: Kyntaero Hello everyone. I was hoping to get some input and good opinions if I may. I have been using this guide's Frost dw spec and rotation since the last patch. Now,there were a few times where a Blood DK would out DPS me. This past week I won the 2h sword from the twin's in ToC10 reg, so i started looking back to blood, so that i could increase my dps. I used this guide and even one from Elitest Jerks(which is always hard to understand for me), but the problem I'm having is I can't get the numbers up and I find that I'm waiting for CD's to be up so that I can continue my rotation, also from this guide. My question is: Is there a good spec for a Frost dps using a 2h weapon? I really like having frost strike, mainly because it hits soooo HARD! I'm going to link my armory and a tree that i was toying around with. Plz keep in mind as you look at my dps gear,...I going to have @ least 2 set tier 9 (prob shoulder and hands) this coming tues. I know i have some gear issues, but trust that I'm working on them. I am also aware of some stats that are low(hit, exp, etc...), but am working on those as well. I am using a hit pot when I'm in combat at least.(puts my hit @ 275) Thanks for any help. Kyntana's Armory: The World of Warcraft Armory Tree I was thinking might work: The World of Warcraft Armory

I'll say this much:

Using a two handed frost build is doable. But you are officially nerfing your damage because of the awesome skill which is known as ToT. When everything in the tree benefits you swinging two weapons (Killing Spree, ToT, increased Melee damage etc etc etc), it becomes very hard to argue for a two handed weapon to do so.

In short, if you do go two handed Frost, expect your numbers to usually be always lower than Blood and Unholy and Frost DW on the sole basis that Frost no longer prompts 2H over DW.

Of course, I'm speaking about the fact that they have to be equally geared and equally skilled. It's just how the whole side of things works. ToT makes DW blow 2H out of the water unfortunately. And without even looking at your spec at this time, I'm assuming you went 7 points in Blood to get the two handed weapon spec, when only 3 points at the most is best for Blood (For Subversion and only if you find yourself threat capped.). EJ, as confusing as it is, has shown that point per point, the talents in Unholy beat Blood.