[Rein]

Source: Griego I continue to use Heroic Strike on single mobs or boss fights, but when fighting a group of mobs or with more than 1 in weapon range, I use Cleave as the rage dump instead. Simply put, I figure if the ability is to get more dps while not wasting rage (i.e. "dumping" it), why not dump into an ability that will hit two mobs instead of one? Also, I think (and I don't know for certain, but just an observation) Cleave crits more often and harder than HS.

I'm a Tank that respecs fury when needed, and i saw a big dps boost when i took 3 points out of Commanding Pressence and put them in Imp. Cleave. Generally speaking, i am able to get both kings and Imp. Might in raids so i find those points improving my battle shout are wasted. The only time i use BS is in 5 mans where the small AP buff isn't a big concern.

Also, I use the Glyph of Cleaving in my tank set, so my cleaves hit an extra target. This translates great to Fury and having the Imp. Cleave talent. Your dps won't increase in boss fights, but you'll see a jump in dmg done and overall dps for the whole run.

[ebs2002]

In a non-imaginary 10 man raid where you (me, to be exact) are the only Warrior at all, and there are not much melee dps at all, how important Sunder Armor application is? On a boss, should I first stack 5 SAs at any cost, or should I use it as a rage dump between WWs and BTs until the full stack, or should I not bother with it at all dumping all the available rage to HSs instead?

I'd stack it. If you have a druid or DK tank, they'll thank you. Any physical DPS will thank you as well (hunters, melee). And it's a big deal to you, likely more than the 5 GCDs and handful of Heroic Strikes that you'd be doing instead.

In 10/25s without another warrior, I immediately put up 5 sunder armors before starting my rotation, and then refresh it during a free GCD.

[Daiker]

What are the crit and hit cap for warriors? My hit is atm 354 and my crit is 30.29%. Do i need more or is this ok for 25 man raids? Can't access the armory right now but if you can plz look me up im on the EU realms on Al'akir character name is Davhorn lvl 80 warrior.

Thx for your help

[Skyborn]

Source: Daiker What are the crit and hit cap for warriors? My hit is atm 354 and my crit is 30.29%. Do i need more or is this ok for 25 man raids? Can't access the armory right now but if you can plz look me up im on the EU realms on Al'akir character name is Davhorn lvl 80 warrior. Thx for your help

164 hit is the minimum to ensure all your yellow hits are landing. Most people think ~200 is optimal as long as you compensate for it by having more than 35% crit. To be fair, some people swear by having ~300 hit but I think anything from 200-280 is fine. When Titan's Grip used to have a huge hit penalty people used to recommend stacking hit, but now that there is no extra chance to miss most people ensure they have at least 200 hit (going a bit over is okay) and then stack crit and AP like mad. You'll see the best returns on your DPS with relatively low hit, high crit, and high AP.

I don't really know what you mean by crit cap, but I think anywhere from 35%-40% crit out of zerker stance is optimal.

Just looking at your gear right now, you'll notice a big DPS increase if you replace every single hit, attack power, and stamina gem with 16 strength. Ignore your socket bonuses unless its something really appealing like +4 strength and then try to socket it with some combination of crit/strength+stam. 16 strength is our best gem by far because it scales with kings.

[Littlejoe3000]

At level 80 with 3 points in Precision you need 361 hit to never miss a special/yellow attack

Isn't it only 8% to never miss yellow attacks?


edit:

164 hit is the minimum to ensure all your yellow hits are landing.

Is 164 Hit required AFTER percision or before?

[Skyborn]

Source: Littlejoe3000 Isn't it only 8% to never miss yellow attacks?

This is an old thread with outdated information now.

164 hit is all you need with precision to prevent yellow misses.

[Littlejoe3000]

164 hit is all you need with precision to prevent yellow misses

Well why would you want higher then that exactly? Just for the simple facts of more white hits=more dps=more rage?

[Skyborn]

Source: Littlejoe3000 Well why would you want higher then that exactly? Just for the simple facts of more white hits=more dps=more rage?

Pretty much. I just find with 164 hit my white swings are missing too much to maintain a smooth rotation where I can hit WW and BT everytime they're off CD. Higher hit smooths out your rage generation so you don't dry up and break your rhythm. But rage droughts can usually be avoided with judicious use of bloodrage / berserker rage during empty GCDs.

Even when I'm swapping stuff around for upgrades I try and maintain 210-280 hit. It's just a personal thing, I know that Dubzil swears by more hit, for example.

[kemikalkadet]

The amount of hit that works for you is largely dependant on your overall gear level imo. When i was in heroic gear and crafted epics, the sweet spot for hit for me was a bit over 300. Now that i'm mostly naxx geared and have a lot more AP and crit, i do fine with ~210 hit, the higher hits and more crits i get now seem to make up for the misses whereas when i was hitting and critting less i found the missed hits could leave me rage starved.

[Littlejoe3000]

That makes sense. Sense you have more AP and crit you can hit harder and gain rage, but with less AP and crit you need more hit sense you hit softer you need to hit more often to not get rage starved.

[Daiker]

Source: Skyborn 164 hit is the minimum to ensure all your yellow hits are landing. Most people think ~200 is optimal as long as you compensate for it by having more than 35% crit. To be fair, some people swear by having ~300 hit but I think anything from 200-280 is fine. When Titan's Grip used to have a huge hit penalty people used to recommend stacking hit, but now that there is no extra chance to miss most people ensure they have at least 200 hit (going a bit over is okay) and then stack crit and AP like mad. You'll see the best returns on your DPS with relatively low hit, high crit, and high AP. I don't really know what you mean by crit cap, but I think anywhere from 35%-40% crit out of zerker stance is optimal. Just looking at your gear right now, you'll notice a big DPS increase if you replace every single hit, attack power, and stamina gem with 16 strength. Ignore your socket bonuses unless its something really appealing like +4 strength and then try to socket it with some combination of crit/strength+stam. 16 strength is our best gem by far because it scales with kings.

I got my AP and crit higher and lowerd my hit, havn't tried it out in raids yet but hopefully it will be ok, Thank you for the help!

[Oldfart77]

I have a question. I feel I am reasonably geared, but I noticed at the top it said not to gem or enchant for hit rating. Well when I let my hit rate go down to mid-200s I saw a significant decrease in DPS. When I let it go down though I didn't gem for STR I gemmed for AP. Does anyone have any suggestions on how to increase my DPS? I'm pretty much Nax 10 geared and ready to move to 25 man Nax, but I don't think 2.5k DPS is cutting it. My character is Frankthewolf on Akama for Horde.

[Warwench]

Source: Oldfart77 I have a question. I feel I am reasonably geared, but I noticed at the top it said not to gem or enchant for hit rating. Well when I let my hit rate go down to mid-200s I saw a significant decrease in DPS. When I let it go down though I didn't gem for STR I gemmed for AP. Does anyone have any suggestions on how to increase my DPS? I'm pretty much Nax 10 geared and ready to move to 25 man Nax, but I don't think 2.5k DPS is cutting it. My character is Frankthewolf on Akama for Horde.

Never gem for hit or AP Frank, our Expertise softcap is 26, our hit softcap it 164, once you can get over those, gem for STR (or sometimes STR/Crit if the socket bonus is worth it).

Big DPS comes from having max Expertise, about 200 ish hit ( i like to be 200-230) and lots of Crit combined with about 3500+ AP (from STR).

I like Crit, but never gem for it unless it comes on a +8 STR /+8 Crit gem (orange). So afte you hit 26/164, gem for STR. You get 20% bonus to STR, you get no bonus to AP.

[Oldfart77]

Thank you so much. So after I get expertise to 26 gem straight STR. Is that right? Plus, any other info is appreciated

[Leytur]

Source: Anik Hit and Expertise Caps: [INDENT] At level 80 with 3 points in Precision you need 361 hit to never miss a special/yellow attack. At level 80 with 2 points in Weapon Mastery you need 148 expertise rating for your attacks not to be dodged. The Hit cap is considered by many to be a cornerstone of Warrior DPS and can be an effective way to increase your damage. While you should strive to meet this cap, you should NOT gem or enchant for it, strength is just too important to neglect. Simply put, you benefit more from big hits than you lose from the occasional miss. Some may argue that the Expertise cap isn't as important when compared to hit, probably because it was a lot harder to obtain at level 70, but with Wrath came a lot of good DPS plate featuring Expertise (including our Tier 7) and while it may not be your first priority there is no reason to ignore it

Is this still true?

[Anik]

Source: Leytur Is this still true?

It's true in the sense that you can be below the hit/expertise cap and Strength will still give you more DPS per point. It depends how close/far you are to the caps.

Any spreadsheet with SEP values can help you determine this.

[Skyborn]

The hit cap has changed though. There's no more hit penalty on titan grip, so with precision you need something like 164 (168?) hit to cap your yellow swing. Whichever the rating value, the percent value is 8% increased chance to hit.

[Leytur]

A compendium of replies on what I just read above in more than one post:

Someone above said "Never gem for hit/exp. Once you're capped it's all about str." Except if you are NOT capped it IS all about hit/exp. Granted the hit cap got dropped big time in the patch and I haven't gotten around to making changes yet. . . Exp cap is still hard as hell to get unless you're killing KT every week.

Bloodrage isn't on GCD that save that for when you REALLY need rage. Zerker rage can be for when you need rage but can wait 1.5 seconds.

I ALWAYS stack 5 sunders off the bat if I'm the only warrior (regardless of how I'm spec'ed) or if there's another warrior but I don't trust them to be team minded enough to sunder.

[tavella]

So does anyone have a link to a *not* out of date Fury guide? I just dual specced, and so I'm trying to figure out the current best crafted/rep gear in slot, cycle, etc, and everything seems to be pre-3.1.