[Gellor]

Source: Corbusier 5. SKILL ROTATION 0.0 sec: BT 1.5 sec: WW 5.0 sec: BT 6.5 sec: CGD free 8.0 sec: GCD free 10.0 sec: BT 11.5 sec: WW 13.0 sec: GCD free 15.0 sec: BT 16.5 sec: GCD free 18.0 sec: GCD free 20.0 sec: BT

I have to disagree with your rotation. Why would you not start with WW over BT? WW is the hardest hitting attack you will have as a raiding warrior.

Also assuming this was written before the patch notes for 3.0.8 were released. Now that BS has been changed to a 20% chance to proc off BT, WW or HS, and the WW glyph reducing it to an 8 sec CD. The fury rotation is potentially a lot busier than it used to be.

0.0 WW
1.5 BT
6.5 BT
8.0 WW

That's pretty much the rotation witht he new patch and glitch's. If the BT @6.5 or a HS proc a slam, use that ay 8 instead of WW. And whne you next WW start the rotation again. Also once you can get to the expertise cap with gear alone, you can dump WM and put those points saved into Imp Execute. Although even in execute range if i have 25 rage i would still use WW over a 25 (35 with glyph) rage execute its still more damage per rage (at least at the 200+dps weapon range).

[Kazaganthi]

Very nice guide. The information on recklessness and shield wall needs to be updated. They don't share a cooldown anymore, and recklessness now only effects the next three special attacks instead of 15 seconds of ownage.

[Corbusier]

1. Reference project marmot for raid preparation lol.

added

2. Don't suggest executing at 20% (i dont think there will be a situation where this is good, use it during free cooldowns tho).

fixed

3. Crit is a lot more important than I think it used to be, due to the fact that it is harder to gear up.

Crit is more important now that deep wounds doesn't blow; gearing up isn't harder than it used to be.

Good job tho, I was lookin for this while I geared but u took too long :P

I blame the UFOs.

[Corbusier]

Source: Gellor I have to disagree with your rotation. Why would you not start with WW over BT? WW is the hardest hitting attack you will have as a raiding warrior. Also assuming this was written before the patch notes for 3.0.8 were released. Now that BS has been changed to a 20% chance to proc off BT, WW or HS, and the WW glyph reducing it to an 8 sec CD. The fury rotation is potentially a lot busier than it used to be. 0.0 WW 1.5 BT 6.5 BT 8.0 WW That's pretty much the rotation witht he new patch and glitch's. If the BT @6.5 or a HS proc a slam, use that ay 8 instead of WW. And whne you next WW start the rotation again. Also once you can get to the expertise cap with gear alone, you can dump WM and put those points saved into Imp Execute. Although even in execute range if i have 25 rage i would still use WW over a 25 (35 with glyph) rage execute its still more damage per rage (at least at the 200+dps weapon range).

Yes, this was written before the 3.0.8 changes were made public, the rotation will be updated to reflect the new glyph, as well as the Bloodsurge change.

Very nice guide. The information on recklessness and shield wall needs to be updated. They don't share a cooldown anymore, and recklessness now only effects the next three special attacks instead of 15 seconds of ownage.

fixed

[Spartain]

Great guide and very useful. Thanks Corbusier!

[swelt]

Great post, I've relied on these guides for some time.

Question: In the light of this post on boss AP reduction, is it worth considering Commanding Presence vs Improved Demo Shout for raid utility?

[Jathine]

Hey Corb, here is a link to the ArP graph. Figured I should do it since you are bad at the internet.
http://i493.photobucket.com/albums/r...e/ArPGraph.jpg



Basically what it shows is that ArP scales fairly linearly all the way up to 700 ArP rating which corresponds to ~45% armor reduction. It doesn't really get close to Crit at any point that is within reason. Remember this graph only shows the damage increase in your damage that is mitigated by mob Armor. Our Bleeds do 20-27% of our total damage so it reduces the % Damage increase of our overall damage.

[Corbusier]

Source: Jathine Hey Corb, here is a link to the ArP graph. Figured I should do it since you are bad at the internet.

Thanks Jath. I do fail @ internet

[Corbusier]

Source: swelt Great post, I've relied on these guides for some time. Question: In the light of this post on boss AP reduction, is it worth considering Commanding Presence vs Improved Demo Shout for raid utility?

If you look at the build I posted, it has no Imp Demo shout, but 5/5 CP for maxed Commanding Shout for utility, or if you happen to not have a fully talented Imp Might.

Since Curse of Recklessness no longer stacks with Imp FF, there's no reason to use a 5/5 Demo Shout; at most 2/5 is needed.

[Kavtor]

Source: Corbusier there's no reason to use a 5/5 Demo Shout; at most 2/5 is needed.

Level 80 boss AP

As to whether it's worth specing into damage reduction at this point, that's probably entirely up to your group. But probably only vaguely worth considering for Malygos and Patchwerk if you're struggling with those.

[Corbusier]

Source: Kavtor Level 80 boss AP As to whether it's worth specing into damage reduction at this point, that's probably entirely up to your group. But probably only vaguely worth considering for Malygos and Patchwerk if you're struggling with those.

Interesting, I hadn't seen this.

[Jathine]

Source: Corbusier Thanks Jath. I do fail @ internet

I'm uploading more images to photobucket to make the ArP section look better. It will be easier to read since it will be aligned nicely and be colored coded somewhat.

http://i493.photobucket.com/albums/r...e/ArPChart.jpg



I'll add more when I get them up on photobucket.

[Corbusier]

Jath, I've been on the warrior forum talking ArP with the usual suspects...it seems that the axes in your graph are inverted.

[Jathine]

http://i493.photobucket.com/albums/r.../BossArmor.jpg

[Jathine]

Source: Corbusier Jath, I've been on the warrior forum talking ArP with the usual suspects...it seems that the axes in your graph are inverted.

The data is still the same, you get the exact same "it takes x ArP rating to get y% increase in damage". If you want I can swap them around, and it wouldn't take long.

Not sure I see a reason since anyone that knows how to read a graph correctly would know what is going on. ArP does scale with itself, but its pretty damn linear all the way up to ~700 rating. That is the main thing to take from it since that is going to probably be above what would be considered a reasonable amount.

[Corbusier]

Source: Jathine The data is still the same, you get the exact same "it takes x ArP rating to get y% increase in damage". If you want I can swap them around, and it wouldn't take long. Not sure I see a reason since anyone that knows how to read a graph correctly would know what is going on. ArP does scale with itself, but its pretty damn linear all the way up to ~700 rating. That is the main thing to take from it since that is going to probably be above what would be considered a reasonable amount.

It just seems that the dependent variable should be on the Y axis, no? In which case the curve actually would be concave, not convex...

[Jathine]

Aight Corb, to appease the masses:

http://i493.photobucket.com/albums/r...mgperptArP.jpg


http://i493.photobucket.com/albums/r...sArPRating.jpg


http://i493.photobucket.com/albums/r...-Corrected.jpg

[ebs2002]

If you are pushing 25% bleed damage you will ArP falling behind Haste by a pretty good amount.

I'm not sure I agree with that, but I'm not going to immediately cry foul. A few questions before I become a believer:
a) What kind of gear would one need to have to see 25% bleed damage? The way you increase your bleed damage should all increase your OTHER damage even more, to keep bleed from getting that high. Can you link a WWS (that's not Thadd) where someone did 25%+ bleed damage, and didn't have glaring issues with their rotation?
b) I've been playing with Landsoul's DPS Spreadsheet, which includes SEP calcs for all pertinent values. At 20% deep wounds damage, ArP is still more valuable than haste by a fair margin (0.45 for haste, 0.58 for ArP). I haven't been able to find a single, typical set of gear that values haste more than ArP.

I'd just like to note that I'm not in any way refuting Jathine's work. I completely agree that ArP is nowhere near the value of Hit/Expertise(below the cap), Str/AP and Crit. I'd just like to see a similar chart for % DPS increase with haste per rating, because at this point I believe that haste is worse than arp vs bosses in every typical case.

[Corbusier]

a) What kind of gear would one need to have to see 25% bleed damage?

DW is already 22-27% of my damage depending on the fight, so 25% isn't unreasonable to assume.

b) I've been playing with Landsoul's DPS Spreadsheet, which includes SEP calcs for all pertinent values. At 20% deep wounds damage, ArP is still more valuable than haste by a fair margin (0.45 for haste, 0.58 for ArP). I haven't been able to find a single, typical set of gear that values haste more than ArP.

I still have misgivings about his SEP values. Unrelated, but he also assumes an average rage scenario, which cannot account for miss streaks, and therefore I believe he undervalues hit beyond the specials cap (which with the 5% TG penalty was not an issue, but it will be once the penalty is removed).

[ebs2002]

I still have misgivings about his SEP values. Unrelated, but he also assumes an average rage scenario, which cannot account for miss streaks, and therefore I believe he undervalues hit beyond the specials cap (which with the 5% TG penalty was not an issue, but it will be once the penalty is removed).

I checked out his SEP calculation macro, and it looked sound to me (if you assume that his entire spreadsheet gives accurate values (or at least relative, ie everything is inflated by X%), then the process in which he does SEP gives the correct values.

Of course, the hit rating / miss streak issue exists, and if your rage is streaky you should add more hit, but there's really not a way to account for that short of running a simulation.

So yeah, there could exist a tool that actually runs a simulation of a 5min fight of a tank'n'spank boss, but you can't do that in a spreadsheet (which means stand-alone executable or javascript applet, both of which people are suspect). But without that, the best thing we have to go on is averages.

Regardless, though, I haven't seen any math that values haste rating, and so I'm wondering where you got your info that ArP falls behind haste.

And can you link a WWS of DW in that range? Honestly, it's not that I don't believe you, I was just looking for one that had DW that high and couldn't find one (I gotta say it's annoying that I can't search for 3-letter words on these forums, like WWS or "WoW Web Stats", which strips out the word 'Web')