[Rishkkin]

Burn then execute if teh situation allows it

[Krenian]

Let me the first to say this:

If the situation allows it.

Being at 100% threat with your tank + Executing for over 8k = DOES NOT ALLOW IT.

....

[ebs2002]

Okay, let me just clarify.

This spreadsheet is solely used for the purpose of determining our maximum damage potential, specifically what our rotation should be. It's not actually giving us a DPS number (yet), so the spreadsheet isn't applying any scenarios like how much rage you have, etc.

All that being said, and to answer your question:
If you are at 100 rage and have execute available, you will do more damage over the long term if you burn your rage with slams first.

If you are burning rage with slams and still sitting at 100 rage, that means that you are taking in more rage than you are spending. What to do then? Use Mortal Strike if it's up.

If you are using Mortal Strike, and slamming on every cooldown, and you're STILL sitting at 100 rage, then you should execute, because you're wasting rage. This situation is known as being in "unlimited rage" (you use everything you can to try to get rid of the rage and you still can't)

Clear so far?

Now, if you are NOT sitting at 100 rage all the time, you should only execute if your rage is below the number the spreadsheet tells you. AND, you should not use Mortal Strike, because slam does more damage per rage, and since you're not in unlimited rage, each rage point is precious.

Is that more clear?

[Brainwreck]

Source: ebs2002 Okay, let me just clarify. This spreadsheet is solely used for the purpose of determining our maximum damage potential, specifically what our rotation should be. It's not actually giving us a DPS number (yet), so the spreadsheet isn't applying any scenarios like how much rage you have, etc. All that being said, and to answer your question: If you are at 100 rage and have execute available, you will do more damage over the long term if you burn your rage with slams first. If you are burning rage with slams and still sitting at 100 rage, that means that you are taking in more rage than you are spending. What to do then? Use Mortal Strike if it's up. If you are using Mortal Strike, and slamming on every cooldown, and you're STILL sitting at 100 rage, then you should execute, because you're wasting rage. This situation is known as being in "unlimited rage" (you use everything you can to try to get rid of the rage and you still can't) Clear so far? Now, if you are NOT sitting at 100 rage all the time, you should only execute if your rage is below the number the spreadsheet tells you. AND, you should not use Mortal Strike, because slam does more damage per rage, and since you're not in unlimited rage, each rage point is precious. Is that more clear?

Yes it is, but heres another question.

In the "unlimited rage" situation, should you not use HS?

Damn, so all of these high SD Arms numbers being posted are the result of slam spam?

[Kazeyonoma]

slam spam and execute/overpowers yep.

and i'm guessing you probably could HS as well, but i'm almost positive that if you have enough rage that you can't burn it down despite slam spamming, HS won't help either, and as such executing is better.

[Rishkkin]

Yep, I had an unlimited rage scenario when I went in kara 2 days ago, I couldn't just burn the rage fast enough, the only thing that would have worked was using execute (I didn't as I really wanted to see the dps of splam)

[ebs2002]

Yes, you arguably could throw in HS as well. I can add in HS math on my sheet to see if it's worthwhile.

My guess is that you're better off Executing at max rage (which is our worst Dmg-to-rage attack). You just lose a TON of rage from heroic striking, and you don't get much damage back for it.

Preliminary numbers suggest that it costs you 32 rage + cost of HS, and all you gain is ~120dmg. But I intend to add all of our potential abilities together, and then spitting out a rotation for you when you're in unlimited rage, and when you're in limited rage. Heroic Strike would likely not make the cut.

[ebs2002]

Wow...new information, yet again.

I refactored my sheet from the ground-up, to include boss armor reduction, full %'age increase to abilities (including Unending Fury, T4/T5/T6 set bonuses, etc).

After putting in further information, it looks like MS has gained a bit of ground. As your stats increase, Slam's viability goes down because your white damage goes up. Haste in particular hurts slam-spam, to the point that with 0 haste, an Imp. WF Totem makes me switch from Slam-Spam to MS>Slam>Slam>Slam.

[Rishkkin]

Guess I'll have to update pitbull's Dogtags

[Brainwreck]

Source: ebs2002 Wow...new information, yet again. I refactored my sheet from the ground-up, to include boss armor reduction, full %'age increase to abilities (including Unending Fury, T4/T5/T6 set bonuses, etc). After putting in further information, it looks like MS has gained a bit of ground. As your stats increase, Slam's viability goes down because your white damage goes up. Haste in particular hurts slam-spam, to the point that with 0 haste, an Imp. WF Totem makes me switch from Slam-Spam to MS>Slam>Slam>Slam.

so in other words any amount of haste at all means MS whenever its up?

[ebs2002]

It depends on your stats and gear. For me, having WF totem (which is 20% haste, mind you...it's not a small amount) gets me there.

But I haven't checked the Damage-per-Rage for a ton of different gearsets to see. I was sorta hoping people would plug in their stats and tell me what their results wound up being :-p

[Rishkkin]

Damage/Rage
MS 37.3
Slam 40.5
WW 32.6
BT 26.2
Ex(emp) 271.3
Ex(full) 28.1


When to Execute?
If your dump is…
MS 84.0
Slam 72.2
WW 112.8
BT 223.4

[ebs2002]

So Rish, for you MS isn't worth it, Slam is better. And since Slam is your key ability, your magic number is 72 rage. Above 72 rage you should slam; below, you should execute.

And if you were two-handed fury (since I don't have dual wield stuff put in) with those stats, and using BT/WW, you should always execute when you can.

[Krenian]

I'm going to be curious as to the T7 bonus actually. That's going to make me look at the MS/Slam thing. Also a key factor:

Slam does NOT seem to be normalized. Using the BoH, I'm seeing far smaller numbers than I did with my Bloodmoon crit and hit wise. Might wanna look into that one.

[Kazeyonoma]

Slam is definitely not normalized.

[ebs2002]

Just checked my sheet, and I don't list Slam as normalized on my sheet.

To confirm this, just increase the speed on your weapon; your average slam damage goes up.

[Kazeyonoma]

curnguz, if you want me to change the title of the thread let me know what to change it to.

[Krenian]

Oh i was just saying outloud that it's not normalized cause I was kinda in shock when I saw my slam damage get hit when I got my BoH. x.x

[Brainwreck]

Damage/Rage
MS 43.2
Slam 43.9
WW 39.0
BT 35.8
Ex(emp) 294.6
Ex(full) 29.1


When to Execute?
If your dump is…
MS 70.0
Slam 68.2
WW 83.6
BT 98.9

[ebs2002]

Chalk up another one for "shouldn't use MS".

More than I thought there would be.