[Taobaibai]

Source: Brainwreck I don't understand what this proves...there is only one dps warrior in there. On top of that you never broke 1100 dps which is not really that impressive... Do you have any reasoning for this or did you just flip a coin?

jo sry , the fury dualwield wasnt on the mh raid...

so u think u do more than me? show me plz , dont forget that i dont have any bm hunter or melee shami in grp ...

[Tonypablos]

Source: Taobaibai jo sry , the fury dualwield wasnt on the mh raid... so u think u do more than me? show me plz , dont forget that i dont have any bm hunter or melee shami in grp ...

/sigh

This is probably the last time I'm going to refute your points because it's obvious you're being stubborn and are just not listening to reason.

1) You do not have WF, which is a key ability for a two hander warrior, whether you are Arms or Fury. You have absolutely no idea if you think you not ever breaking 1100 dps is 'good dps'. Average fury warriors do around 1300+ dps if not more on bosses at this point if they're good.

2) Trash means SFA. And I mean SFA. (Sweet eff all, pardon my french). Bosses are where it counts and you NEVER were above in the top 5 in the WWS you showed us just now.

3) the WWS alone pretty much proves what people have been thinking all this time: Fury, although decent, is nothing compared to dual wield. You haven't convinced me nor anyone on this forum yet.

Furthermore, you keep saying the Fury warrior isn't there. You tell me that maybe I've never seen a good Fury two hander and myabe that's true, in fact, I've not seen any to be honest since the old ages of testing BC. But let me flip the coin to you: Have you even ever seen a GOOD fury two hander? They can top nearly 2k damage on a melee friendly fight like Teron or Akama in the SAME gear but moreso geared towards dual wield. You showed me and you had no more than 1400 on those fights and that alone buries your statement.

This is the last time I'm going to say this and I'm hoping at this point you get it through your head:

Fury Two Hander, although decent dps, has yet to be proven to be MORE personal damage than a Fury dual wield warrior, with the same stats at the same level for their specs.

Therefore, you are not bringing your best DPS to the raid. Hey, play what you want, I'm all for you guys playing what you want.

But don't come touting it's great dps when dual wield has been constantly proven the best spec pre 3.0.

[Taobaibai]

btw as u see i died at akama fight ... and had no wf and heroism

and our raid hasnt all clear yet in bt

so i am the first one who says 2h slam fury make more than dualwield, if u have the knowledge and equip for that ...

and i do pull more than 2k dps on teron with 2h fury build + wf shami , heroism , releckness etc

But u know that we not have a melee shami in our raid everytime . And u really think im noob because of no wf?? omg as i said , we not always have a melee shami in our raid ...


and at least ... i will not post anything in this thread anymore because its nonsense...

i always try to say to people that 2h can make more than dualwield fury , but they dont understand . They think mainstream dualwield fury is best , thats why the most people play dualwield because its easy to play with 2-3 spamm buttons and only talk bullshit about 2handers... and people just dont want to understand that ...

[Kazeyonoma]

Watch your language, he's been civil with you, and now you're resorting to cursing? You haven't stated anything that disproves the status quo, except, I do much damage. Which we can't prove against. AND
this is all moot, 3.0.2 is out, so 2hfury is totally different now.

End of discussion. just stop.

[Taobaibai]

Source: Kazeyonoma Watch your language, he's been civil with you, and now you're resorting to cursing? You haven't stated anything that disproves the status quo, except, I do much damage. Which we can't prove against. AND this is all moot, 3.0.2 is out, so 2hfury is totally different now. End of discussion. just stop.

yep it is different now ... and i will not post anymore

i know by myself that 2h slam fury(with eq+know how to play this) > dualwield

if other people think different , not my problem , because i dont want to explain xxxxxx times u know

[Kazeyonoma]

regardless, you can state what you want, but we have wws parses and proof that Dual wield has consistently out dps'd 2hand slam fury, you haven't shown anything to disprove this so we can't change our opinions based solely on your hearsay.

Just drop this discussion now.

[Taobaibai]

yep , and after patch is here now , its all nonsense to talk here about pre 3.0 ^^

[Twalek]

Long time reader, first time poster.

My question is, if I may alter the direction of the discussion a tad, is slam spam with a 2h whilst waiting on sudden death procs better than doing the whole rend-overpower thing?

[Tonypablos]

Tests are showing that if you slam spam and ignore OP/Rend does pull out slightly ahead but I'm sure that both could really work just fine. I'm starting to think the slam spam route is the best way to go for those people who just are braindead.

Also I'm starting to think that Mortal Strike might go to the side. For one, it costs 30 rage, which is equal to two slams and a 0.5 second slam x2 really doesn't slow my rage generation down that much. For two, it's about the same damage as one slam, and I'm pulling out two instead. I'm simply not seeing the point of MS right about now and that's just my opinion.

It'll be your preference. If you want a bit of diversity, go with the Rend/OP route. If you want to have simplicity, slam spam works just as well.

[Twalek]

I did Kara, ZA and Gruuls last night and had an enh shaman in the raid, and honestly, I dont think I used slam more than once, either OP, Execute or MS were up and I was constantly at 100 rage. I'm sorry I haven't got any screenies of the breakdowns, but will get some tonight when we go sunwell.

On a more amusing note, try AoEing down Malacress and his adds, this is the result;

ImageShack - Hosting :: wowscrnshot101608230631rh9.jpg

[ebs2002]

I'm simply not seeing the point of MS right about now and that's just my opinion.

Interesting analysis. I wonder what would happen if we just didn't take MS, and used the talent points elsewhere...

After looking at it, if you were to completely remove MS from your rotation, there's not much left to spend it on. You can fill out Tactical Mastery or Iron Will. You need to spend the points to get to Bladestorm.

However, if you skip out on Imp MS, you can save a talent point and only go 52pts into arms. You can spend that extra talent point on Imp Bloodrage (extra few rage per minute), or Unbridled Wrath (a little extra rage).

If we can determine that Imp MS isn't worth the rage, we can continue to splam, and get a little more rage out it of.

[Tonypablos]

Source: ebs2002 Interesting analysis. I wonder what would happen if we just didn't take MS, and used the talent points elsewhere... After looking at it, if you were to completely remove MS from your rotation, there's not much left to spend it on. You can fill out Tactical Mastery or Iron Will. You need to spend the points to get to Bladestorm. However, if you skip out on Imp MS, you can save a talent point and only go 52pts into arms. You can spend that extra talent point on Imp Bloodrage (extra few rage per minute), or Unbridled Wrath (a little extra rage). If we can determine that Imp MS isn't worth the rage, we can continue to splam, and get a little more rage out it of.

Oh yeah. I was in Silithus today just mining for my Death Knight and I switched out my rotation a bit and just used slam. I had more rage than I thought possible and I just saw no point to using MS at that time.

I'd go in, hit a 2k white damage, slam for 2.5k, slam again for another 2.5k crit if it was still alive and still have about 30 rage. I figure two slams would probably outweight any damage MS does. Which could potentially free up six points. let's see here...

Warrior Talent Calculator

Something in this retrospect is something I might consider. Skip MS completely, to be honest.

Now, if they would make OP and Rend be castable in Berserker stance, I'd be happy. The thing I would wanna know is if you can sacrafice OP/Rend for the 3% crit in Berserker stance and just WW with your weapon every 10 seconds or something. Who knows. It's testing some people could do to find out.

[ebs2002]

What about something like this:
Talent Calculator - World of Warcraft

You get Tactical Mastery, to make it easier to switch stances to rend/OP. Get/build a mod that alerts you when you can OP, switch stances quick to OP and then switch back to berserker.

Also, I'd go Imp Bloodrage. 25% more rage on it should be more Rage/min than UW.

[Tonypablos]

Source: ebs2002 What about something like this: Talent Calculator - World of Warcraft You get Tactical Mastery, to make it easier to switch stances to rend/OP. Get/build a mod that alerts you when you can OP, switch stances quick to OP and then switch back to berserker. Also, I'd go Imp Bloodrage. 25% more rage on it should be more Rage/min than UW.

Yeah, I just had that point laying about and i just like a static build over a CD I have to look at all the time. Call me lazy.

I'm not sure how useful stance dancing would be. Think about it, Rend procs every 3 seconds, which means it has a chance of hitting Op. You'd be using your GCD just to switch back and forth between Battle and Zerker just to hit OP. By using OP/Rend, you're really not having much time to hit Slam anymore.

Right now, with the rotation I'm using for the 53/8 build, I find I rarely to ever am able to hit slam due to the inconsistancy which rend procs OP and how much I have to be on the ball just to catch OP, Execute, MS and watch Rend. Adding Slam is a lil annoying and hard to control. I'm figuring by eliminating the whole rend/OP thing, and going in berserker stance, you would be more reliant on instant slam damage to proc your Sudden Death.

I'm also getting more and more convinced this is going to be the smarter way to go and to forego the whole bleed/OP aspec of it due to the change to how SD will proc: HIt instead of crit.

Which means OP will not be needed to try to light up SD, which was the core reason why you used the skill. So honestly, I'd rather get used to it in zerker and just sit there and beat the snot out of things with slam, drop MS, use WW on CDs, Bladestorm when it's up, and Execute. Just seems the more rational way to go.

[ebs2002]

Yeah, I just had that point laying about and i just like a static build over a CD I have to look at all the time. Call me lazy.

You should be using bloodrage even if you're not talented into it, though :-p

You'd be using your GCD just to switch back and forth between Battle and Zerker just to hit OP.

Stance dancing isn't on the GCD. It's on its own cooldown, so you have to stay in the stance you're in for 1sec, but in and of itself it doesn't use the GCD.
I have a ton of hotkeys that use this:
/cast [stance:3] Pummel; Berserker Stance
Instantly interrupts (well, two presses of the hotkey). Don't have to wait for the GCD.

Also, one benefit you're overlooking to using OP: it helps you keep Deep Wounds rolling.

To help deal with being "distracted", I'm wondering if a macro like the following would help:
/cast Mortal Strike
/cast Execute
/cast Overpower
/cast Slam

I haven't studied macros as much as I should, but wouldn't the net effect be:
Cast MS (if it's not up, do nothing)
If you're not on the GCD, cast execute (if not available, do nothing)
If not on the GCD, cast overpower (if not available, do nothing)
If not on the GCD, cast slam

Not that I'm saying this should be the only button on our hotbars (probably good to hotkey all your abilities separately), but that may help to spam rather than relying on your reaction speed to OP/Execute.

Course, this has nothing to do with stance dancing...sorry, I got distracted.

[Rid]

I guess I'd be tempted to keep one point in MS (1 point in unbridled wrath doesn't give you much at all) to still be reasonable in low level arena games, partic with improved intercept. I'd love if you could have the best dps spec and still take those two. Of course hardcore arena would still need an arena specific build but for 5v5 at least it wouldn't be hurrendous.

[Rishkkin]

Source: ebs2002 To help deal with being "distracted", I'm wondering if a macro like the following would help: /cast Mortal Strike /cast Execute /cast Overpower /cast Slam

Wouldn't you get a "Ability not ready" Message and have the macro fail at that point (if MS is still on CD) ?

[ebs2002]

Wouldn't you get a "Ability not ready" Message and have the macro fail at that point (if MS is still on CD) ?

Bah, you're right. I just learned that having a command that tries to /cast anything that triggers the GCD will force the game to think the GCD is under effect, even if it's not.

Oh well.

[Tonypablos]

The thing is by critting with slam, you would continue rolling Deep Wounds so really, the point for Rend being up is rather moot. So long as you crit, Deep Wounds will go up and probably reroll all the time.

I just had a fun time in Heroic MT (Yeah uh, our pally healer really sucked.) And decided to try a berserker stance only without MS. And I'm almost sure I pulled out more DPS than I would normally. I don't have the statistics of it but what I do have is the stats of another warrior who chose to take this discussed route but but in MS and he was pulling nearly 2500 DPS on Naj'entus. If needed I can post up the stat sheet but i'm tired and just woke up from a nap so you'll have to excuse me.

[Tonypablos]

So I decided to try out a slam only spec in zerker without bleeds.

WOW Meter Online - More logs!!!!!!

Not bad if I do say so myself. had a horrible pug to do this but it was good enough for me to test it out.

Couple of things though:

1- CONSTANTLY keeping up to the tanks in threat. That may pose a problem later on. Tank was a T6 geared tank and really was having a hard time to hold threat. Granted, those two bosses are a pain, but I seriously had to stop for a good 20 seconds.

2- Rage was somewhat spiky and I have to look at maybe stopping slam usage at 15 rage. This will give me those times where I need to execute.

But yeah, I had fun. And rage was less of an issue that it was with using MS, and I didn't need to deal with that waste of a time of watching Rend + OP go. I like this way and I think I'll stay that way.