WotLK Spec/Stats for 3.0 lvl70 raiding - Page 3

**Narshe** · #41 10-10-2008, 01:13 AM

If it's on hit chance I guess that Sword would get ahead of maces, specially with all those APen we currently have.
Poleaxe vs. Swords should be calculated. Pleaxe gives more crit damage, but swords provides doublehits that can proc sudden death...

Btw, yesterday I started to get some numbers, but I need to do more tests before I can publish them.
With my current gear, in fury I was getting 1500 dps, getting some +hit gems instead of crit ones (which I should have not). I had another char copied and then regemmed almost everything to +STR gems and tried arms and made around 1700 dps. I was fighting with 25% crit in battle stance, glyph of rend but not glyph of MS.
This afternoon I will try to switch gems son I can get more crit and I will test the three builds (arms, 1H fury, TG fury) stacking STR/Crit/Hit. I think I can also get help from a friend and get his shaman so I can get totems, heroism and unleashed rage to get more accurate data of what I should get in a raid environment.

Btw, I have two more questions for you which have run a lot of more tests than me:
- What alliance dummies are the best to try in? Darnassus and Stormwind are too close to each other and WW/Bladestorm always hit the other ones xD
- Is Bladestorm useful to use in a PvE environment? From my tests, it seemed to be a DPS increase, but it was not something tested, it was that the two times I used, my Recount DPS got ~50 DPS higher while I was bladestorming.... but at the cost of losing rend and wasting some rage.

Thx for keeping this thread calm and constructive. You are being of great help to me (and probably other readers too).

@Anik: Brutal Gladiator weapons are between Apolyon and Felspine isn't it?
How would you rate Vengeful weapons? Above or below BoH?

@Kazey: About that Battle stance fighting I was sure from the beggining. Those tests I ran with my old char were showing around 200 dps increase if played in Battle instead of Zerker. With Bladestorm, Sweeping strikes (do they stack?) and the new Thunderclap we should do decent dps when there are 2+ mobs to fight.

Anik · #42 10-10-2008, 02:01 AM

Source: Narshe
If it's on hit chance I guess that Sword would get ahead of maces, specially with all those APen we currently have.

Armor Pen took a big hit with the normalization. The days of bosses with zero armor are gone.

Source: Narshe
Poleaxe vs. Swords should be calculated. Pleaxe gives more crit damage, but swords provides doublehits that can proc sudden death...

The Sword Spec nerf isn't that bad. The chances of sword spec procing more than once in six seconds pre-nerf is so low it's not noticeable. The new poleaxe spec is very nice though, even with the change to sudden death it allows you to gem for less crit not to mention the bonus damage.

Source: Narshe
- Is Bladestorm useful to use in a PvE environment? From my tests, it seemed to be a DPS increase, but it was not something tested

Yes! Bladestorm is awesome and you should throw it into your rotation, or even start with it and keep it on cooldown.

Source: Narshe
@Anik: Brutal Gladiator weapons are between Apolyon and Felspine isn't it?
How would you rate Vengeful weapons? Above or below BoH?

The problem with brutal weapons is that much of the item budget is spent on stamina and resilience.

For Poleaxe spec Felspine beats Brutal Axe by about 10 dps. Brutal Axe beats BOH by only ~15 dps.
For Swords it depends on your armor pen, if you have alot Cats would barely edge out the Brutal Sword with Apoloyon still being the best.

MaxDPS.com has Wrath spreadsheets out, not perfect but will give you a good idea of gear. MaxDPS.com - Arms Warrior DPS Gear Rankings

**Narshe** · #43 10-10-2008, 02:50 AM

Thx for the info about the updated MaxDPS, gonna play with it a bit

Thanks for your input aswell btw ^^

**Kazeyonoma** · #44 10-11-2008, 01:54 AM

all good =]

fingers · #45 10-12-2008, 08:49 AM

Hi anik, can u give a link to the speck you are using on the ptr, also are u enchanting your weapon with mongoose or executioner..

many thanks

BronxMP · #46 10-13-2008, 11:01 AM

Kazeyonoma based on your insight into this what talent builds do you recommend for Raiding and Arena with the patch being released tomorrow? At this moment I jump between Fury build for Raids and Grinding, whereas I use MS build for Arenas and BGs. Is there going to be one build that is both good for PVP and PVE? Or will I be doing Respec dance till expansion comes out?

Thank you for your time.

Could you link the talent build with your recommmendations?

**Kazeyonoma** · #47 10-13-2008, 11:14 AM

I'm not entirely sure to be honest, I've done some testing on the PTR and there's some mixed results depending on who you listen to. I'm thinking that going full arms is still going to be your top DPS spec right now, something like: Talent Calculator - World of Warcraft 53/8/0, It lacks all of the pvp necessities and has some pure DPS bonuses in there like imp rend (i know i know, lol! but you'll have to keep rend going to proc overpower anyways, might as well get the most out of it's dps). For PvP, I'm still leaning towards Prot being one of the funnest and successful if paired with another dps'er who can put up a Healing debuff (hunter,rogue,warrior). But arms will still probably be very strong going something like:
Talent Calculator - World of Warcraft for a bladestorm build but without piercing howl it's gonna be tough, so I'd also try this one:
Talent Calculator - World of Warcraft

No blade storm but you get back piercing howl and booming voice. I mean, BS is amazing if you can land all the hits... but you can't use it once you're already cc'd (you have to pre-emptively fire it to prevent cc), and you can't intercept/intervene/charge while BS'ing so you can't catch someone if they spring, vene away, etc/etc. You hav eto make sure they're either stunned, immobilized, or hamstrung before you pop it. my 1v1 experience showed that popping it after a full duration intercept stun is pretty amazing but is still hard to pull off, so it's up to you. I am gonna try both and see how they fair.

BronxMP · #48 10-13-2008, 12:00 PM

So pretty much Fury is dead till WotLK? And since mace effect has been nerfed go back to axes?

**Kazeyonoma** · #49 10-13-2008, 12:03 PM

axes or swords are still good, maces just seem.. kinda meh..

and fury is viable i just can't figure out how, in raiding if you have enough +hit from gear (not gems) to remove misses, it might be viable, for pvp, i dunno, it's just weird right now, i couldn't win any fights in pvp, the only good thing about TG fury in pvp is that I can drop healers really fast lol.

BronxMP · #50 10-13-2008, 12:19 PM

So I guess I put my Brutality Fist weapons away for now. My hit is at 125 with gear and gems, but regardless seems full Arms is way to go for "more bang for my buck" DPS.

Taobaibai · #51 10-13-2008, 07:19 PM

many noobs here talking

i think if u have the really (MAX) ArP on equip with mace spec it will maybe an interesting thing

Axe > sword > mace

but kazeyonama ist right

arms spec will outdps dualwield at patchday

because the dualwield fury becomes a supportwarrior

and by the way , i pull more dmg than fury dualwield warriors with my twohand spec

and with fury 2h i pull much more ...

Wow Web Stats specced 33/28 at this raid without melee shami and died more times than the fury warry ^^

and TG sux for lvl 70 !! TG will might be usable at lvl 80...

**Tonypablos** · #52 10-13-2008, 07:48 PM

Source: Taobaibai
many noobs here talking

-cough- Not the greatest of ways to start a conversation, btw.

EDIT: Just was reading the WWS right now and I have to presume you're Chenglong, the Warrior that's obviously above things.

Now first off, I'd like to point out that trash mob total dps? Useless. So being on top of total dps through a run doesn't mean squat to me as the flights flux from top to bottom and trash is not something I pay attention to. The bosses are what matters.

Looking at your stats:

Supremus, you pulled out a 675 dps with your 33/28 arms build. No offense..but that's god awful. Granted, Supremus is not kind to any melee dps due to running around with your head cut off so I'm not going to hold you against this. As a 33/28, you are supposed to do one thing and that's keep BF up. So I guess you might of done that job, who knows. Oh wait, that's right, looking at your Supremus kill, I'm not one who understands the language very well but browsing over every icon, I missed three that told me apparently that the skill doesn't exist. But unless one of those three is BF, you absolutely proved that you aren't even properly spec'ed first off. WORSE off is if you're not spec'ed that way, 675 dps is absolutely horrid.

Akama's a real skewed fight and I guess a good fight to put melee dps to the max. So let's see. In total, you did 1321 dps and died. How in blue blazes you die on Akama is beyond me, especially when WWS only takes the fight in account from when Shade of Akama is actually fighting, which means you've got nothing at all hitting you. Now, 1321 dps is not bad at all, I gotta admit. It's better than the dismal dps you pulled out on Supremus, but again. No BF and you died on the most simple of fights..(Let's not forget that it looks like you tried three attempts on the poor sod too.) But again, I kinda have to bite my tongue here as I've seen warriors break the 2k dps easily. So again, 1300's pretty low on the dps warrior scales that I've seen and you're not even giving the utility of the spec at all. So again, a failure on this part.

Teron Gorefiend. Ok, now I'm not going to play nice here: Any casters that beat you on this fight, unless you become a ghost, will prove to me that you don't know what you're doing. Teron's got the least amount of armor which means all melee dps damage, hell, all PHYSICAL damage, gets really a boost here and 9/10 you have melee or physical DDs as top 5. Let's see.

Warlock (Yes, makes sense, they're quite powerful)
Hunter x2 (Physical DPS like I called, and hunters have a powerful dps rotation to blast many people in a dps race)
Mage x2 (...WHAT?!)

Your mages beat you!? Either you got exceptionally good mages, which by all means, pulling 1400 dps on Teron's pretty decent, but you came in 6th, with one death, but 100% so I'm going to say you got battle rezzed somewhere. But seriously...6th with 1141 dps? Get outta here.

I'm not even going to look at the Gurtogg attempts as failed attempts mean nothing.

So you were below a tank on Supremus with a death at 70ish percent, second on a fight that a monkey could do and yet you still died, and 6th on a fight that predominately is melee friendly bar getting ghosted.

And you're coming to these forums stating that your dps is amazing and you know your class well?

Ahem...Stop being a hypocrite.

Wars · #53 10-13-2008, 07:52 PM

Sounds like arms will be fun if paired with a prot warrior, lol.

Moreover, there are not a lot of noobs here talking. I don't know who you are, but that is not a good way to start over here. As I usually say, this isn't RandomMessageboardwetalkshiton.com.

Use grammar and full sentences and less name calling. Sorry we're not as l337.

I'm personally going pvp prot for a week once patch goes live. People will have no clue what hit them. Going to be fantastic!

Malkieri · #54 10-13-2008, 07:59 PM

first off understand that people here back up their research and comments with facts, not just speaking.

second of all if you're going to post wws reports at least make them impressive and say who you are

kainelderan · #55 10-13-2008, 11:05 PM

Can anyone link a good TG build to this convo? I have been having a hard time finding one. I really really want to go TG, and I am determined to make it work any way I can. Only problem for me is my guild is only at T4 progression level (Gruul/Mag/Kar) and some of ZA, so I can't get to some of you all's gear level... but I have 2 Gorehowls already set up for tomorrow. Just trying to figure out the build to use.

**Tonypablos** · #56 10-13-2008, 11:42 PM

TG? At Tier 4? oooh boy...you're going to hate yourself in the morning thinking you would wanna do TG with a minimal gearset like T4 content. Mine's in T5-T6 content and I'm not even looking forward to it.

Well the first thing I did is look at what would be best. You're going to be putting 51 points in the tree for the talent, you may as well get decent stuff outta it. So I propose this one:

http://talent.mmo-champion.com/?warr...12153120501351

Now, let me explain a bit on my choices:

1 point in Imp Berserker Stance to let you get some rage if say, you get a whole streak of missing whiffs like you probably will. This will try to generalize your rage more.

8 points in prot: As much as if you have followed any tests I've done, I've said use slam, the incite bonus is about the best way to go at this time due to the fact you can't reach deep wounds for a bit. Thus queuing up your Heroic Strikes will probably net you a bigger upgrade in dps at this point due to the glyph + Incite boosting your damage.

The other talents in my opinion are mainstream talents that just help with dual wielding and damage increase. But that would be my best suggestion until wrath comes out. At that point, I would sincerely either suggest you start building in arms and try to get 19 points in Arms and 52 points in Fury: Something in this regard...

http://talent.mmo-champion.com/?warr...12053120501351

The removal of the point in Imp Berserker is offset by the rage from Anger Management somewhat. But the big thing: Imp Two handers and Deep Wounds. Those are going to be your big damage dealers with a two hander, and it'll be simpler to start weaving slams in, in my opinion. Hope this answers your questions.

kainelderan · #57 10-14-2008, 12:08 AM

Eh.. may not be super gear but its done fairly well for my level of progression. You can see what gear I have by going to my WoW characters in my profile (minus gorehowl, its obviously not what I use as fury). Right now I'm prot just because I wanted to finish up getting my Champion of the Naaru title before it went away... which I did, yay. But I've managed to get to 185 hit without even regem'ing anything so I'm fairly happy. Had hoped to see T5 before expansion but our raiding went severely downhill with people realizing they'd just replace all of that gear so soon. /sigh

iSpank · #58 10-14-2008, 12:38 AM

Lots of good info and suggestions here. Glad I found this forum. I myself am leaning towards Arms 53/8. Just too many good stuff and not much counterbalances. Bladestorm, 1 sec Overpower that has a 93% crit chance talented and raid buff, Sudden Death executes and improved MS being viable now are mainly the reasons I'm going arms.

Fury was good for me until today :S RIP using 1handers having windfury to triple crit enemies. TG is good imo but not 'fun' to play. WoW is a fun game and TG misses doesn't make it fun.

Spec I'll be using: Talent Calculator - World of Warcraft

**Darksend** · #59 10-14-2008, 01:27 AM

Source: kainelderan
Eh.. may not be super gear but its done fairly well for my level of progression. You can see what gear I have by going to my WoW characters in my profile (minus gorehowl, its obviously not what I use as fury). Right now I'm prot just because I wanted to finish up getting my Champion of the Naaru title before it went away... which I did, yay. But I've managed to get to 185 hit without even regem'ing anything so I'm fairly happy. Had hoped to see T5 before expansion but our raiding went severely downhill with people realizing they'd just replace all of that gear so soon. /sigh

he did not mean to criticize your gear, he just simply meant that TG is EXTREMLY overtuned for level 70. Even at 80 it will take beyond Naxx 25 gear to get the most effect out of it. Even warriors in full rogue sunwell hit gear will have a hard time justifying using TG at 70.

your gear is fine, its the gear requirements of TG that are wrong. Sorry if he offended you he certainly didnt mean to.

tejo · #60 10-14-2008, 04:22 AM

I'm super excited for all of it. TG may suck but running around with two giant two handers for a bit won't. I'm more looking forward to the prot side of everything, but you can bet I'm going to be a giggly warrior running around with 2 massive weapons because I can.