Warrior The new Unending Fury

Korlong · #1 09-30-2008, 04:50 PM

Unending Fury changed to increase damage of Slam, Whirlwind and Bloodthirst by 2/4/6/8/10% (it no longer offers a rage discount).
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This still seems underwhelming. I can see Enrage still outperforming this on alot of (most) bossfights. Given that in our testing those three abilities seem to be making up a little under 40% of a Fury Warrior's damage, it really needs to be 3/6/9/12/15% (or 2/4/6/9/12% if Blizzard is feeling adventurous and non-conformist) in my opinion.

**Tatt** · #2 09-30-2008, 04:58 PM

Ok wait a sec....WW spec is added 20% damage, plus 5/5 Unending fury is another 10%, plus deathwish is another 20%......

Does it seem to anyone else that Blizzard is trying to make fury warriors ridiculously powerful but horribly clumsy to compensate?

**Tonypablos** · #3 09-30-2008, 05:38 PM

It's a very small start. They need to do a lot more than that especially from how they seem to be pushing how TG is going to work.

What's 10% hit if you can't even bloody hit the things anymore...

/sigh.

**Brucimus** · #4 10-02-2008, 03:08 PM

I'm saving my Romulo Poison Vial just in case. I can deal with having to stack some hit to be able to hit this hard.

**Tatt** · #5 10-02-2008, 03:14 PM

Between the vial or the hellfire heroic trinket that does armor penetration on use, which do you think would be mroe valuable if we do end up needing to use a hit rating trinket?

Korlong · #6 10-02-2008, 04:35 PM

Vial, given that armor penetration is worse than useless for PvE in the patch. Also, I wouldn't use either of them. If you don't have a good hit trinket (read: [item]Tsunami Talisman[/item] or [item]Madness of the Betrayer[/item]), you are probably better off looking for your hit elsewhere, such as in gems.

It's important not to gimp yourself in your quest for hit.

Also a fairly relevant note, the change to Windfury is a fairly significant buff to haste rating. As it stacks multiplicatively with flurry, and both of those stack multiplicatively with haste (which stacks multiplicatively with hit).

I'd also like to use this space to touch on Ghost's moronic "thought experiment" on the usefulness of Titan's Grip:

WotLK Beta (US-English) Forums -> GC, The big elephant in the room

Try this: Skip Titan's Grip. Go hit stuff. You can be naked except for your sword. (Just don't let the kids see.) Now go get Titan's Grip and hit stuff. Did your dps go up?

That's a sincere question. You may have missed some hits, and you may hate, hate, hate missing, but did your dps go up?

Now imagine all of that +hit you were planning on stacking were +AP instead. Would your dps with Titan's Grip be higher or lower?

This experiment is useless, as if you're naked except for weapons, and you equip two two-handers instead of two one-handers, your dps can't NOT go up. The entire point is that the -15% hit on Titan's Grip adversely affects your dps contribution from other gear. In fact, in the event that you were to disregard special attacks, the answer to his second question is almost assuredly no.

**veneretio** · #7 10-02-2008, 04:58 PM

Source: Korlong
This experiment is useless, as if you're naked except for weapons, and you equip two two-handers instead of two one-handers, your dps can't NOT go up. The entire point is that the -15% hit on Titan's Grip adversely affects your dps contribution from other gear. In fact, in the event that you were to disregard special attacks, the answer to his second question is almost assuredly no.

Did you do the experiment?

That is a fair experiment. Think of it this way... Hit Rating until you are special capped is the most powerful stat you can stack right now. It's why you stack it first, but ultimately with 1 handers it's really easy to do.

If the naked experiment does result in TG doing more damage then you get to stack Hit Rating a whole lot longer than you ever got to with 1 handers meaning that you get to stack your best dps stat, longer. This is a very good thing.

**Tatt** · #8 10-02-2008, 05:03 PM

Without starting this argument back up, I would like someone to point out 1 other class spec that the 51 or 61 point talent reduces any of your stats in order to grant you something else. I don't mean one that people do not take, like Endless Rage, but one that actually makes you lose Intelligence, Stamina, Strength, or anything like that. The only thing I can see that is remotely close is tree healers moving slower, but their movement speed does not make them heal slower, just walk slower. No other class is "balanced" by a talent stat reduction.

Korlong · #9 10-02-2008, 05:10 PM

Source: veneretio
Did you do the experiment?

That is a fair experiment. Think of it this way... Hit Rating until you are special capped is the most powerful stat you can stack right now. It's why you stack it first, but ultimately with 1 handers it's really easy to do.

If the naked experiment does result in TG doing more damage then you get to stack Hit Rating a whole lot longer than you ever got to with 1 handers meaning that you get to stack your best dps stat, longer. This is a very good thing.

People need to stop thinking like this. If I stole all your money, that's a good thing because the money you're making is more important to you, right?

kpxneophyte · #10 10-02-2008, 06:12 PM

I find it funny how the thread started with one talent and ended up on a completely different talent after the third post.

In addition, for enrage to proc, you need to be getting hit. So unless you're tanking a boss in fury, it seems like the new unending fury is actually quite decent.

**Tatt** · #11 10-02-2008, 06:14 PM

Anyone who puts points far enough down the fury tree for endless rage is obviously concerned with the point that comes right after. Anyone who cares about the fury tree in general cares about TG.

Rid · #12 10-03-2008, 09:57 AM

Also that experiment doesn't take into account how gear affects bt vs melee damage. If you equip epic weapons naked your melee damage is far higher than your bloodthirst damage anyway due to a lack of AP. I know what they're trying to say, but honestly, why bother doing it naked, no one plays naked so in that sense it's not a fair test anyway. Why not make it easy and go do the same test with your gear on like people have been doing for a while now. Those results seem to be far more sueful to me.

**veneretio** · #13 10-03-2008, 11:07 AM

Source: Korlong
People need to stop thinking like this. If I stole all your money, that's a good thing because the money you're making is more important to you, right?

Your example doesn't match my point at all.

I'll give you an example in terms of Tanking TPS. If we had an ability that Gave us 500 BV, but at the expense of 50 Expertise Rating... this would be a great thing. We'd get more threat overall and it'd allow us to stack our BEST threat stat longer.

I find it funny how the thread started with one talent and ended up on a completely different talent after the third post.

To be fair, it was the guy who started the thread that derailed his own thread.

Taobaibai · #14 10-03-2008, 07:05 PM

can anyone tell if here is a different? with wotlk it will change

... and whats the value .... will amp rating be higher? or the same

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**Daavos** · #15 10-06-2008, 10:20 AM

What if you just didn't take TG and went with 2 one-handers? This is a serious question. Wouldn't constant, reliable dps in raids be better then the spiky damage from the TG miss penalty?

**Tonypablos** · #16 10-06-2008, 10:25 AM

Source: Daavos
What if you just didn't take TG and went with 2 one-handers? This is a serious question. Wouldn't constant, reliable dps in raids be better then the spiky damage from the TG miss penalty?

Or you can just go 54/17 arms right now and knock out 5.4k DPS >.>

WotLK Beta (US-English) Forums -> 5354 DPS in 25man patchwerk

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**Kazeyonoma** · #17 10-06-2008, 10:27 AM

If you can get a good amount of gear (chances are you will be able to at level 80 from Naxx thanks to Arrivan's research) that has high amounts of hit rating as well as other DPS stats, than TG will pull ahead of regular 1Handers DW. however, for now, if you can't attain high hit rating to make up for TG's penalty, 15/46 will be a better option for most of us, especially those of us who balanced our gear around 95 hit.

**Lore** · #18 10-06-2008, 10:55 AM

You could always gem for hit, assuming you haven't already.

**Kazeyonoma** · #19 10-06-2008, 10:59 AM

From what me and tony have been able to test, gemming for hit, brings down our dps, becuase we're losing so many other dps stats to do that, namely our STR.

**Tatt** · #20 10-06-2008, 11:00 AM

Even gemming for hit will not get you where you need to be without also finding hit specific gear, especially trinkets. Example, if I replaced every one of my epic gems other than satisfying my meta requirements, it would put me somewhere in the high 280's hit rating, almost enough for the new cap. Doing so would put me below 2k AP unbuffed, in starting Hyjal gear. It becomes a liability instead of a bonus, at least until we find the right gear at 80.