[Tonypablos]

I'll repeat what Meeks and Corb said.

DO NOT GEM FOR HIT!!
DO NOT GEM FOR HIT!!
DO NOT GEM FOR HIT!!

[unigolyn]

Source: Tattman2an Doing so would put me below 2k AP unbuffed, in starting Hyjal gear. It becomes a liability instead of a bonus, at least until we find the right gear at 80.

Would it, with dual Savagery?

[Tatt]

No, but why would I use dual savagery chants? Again it eliminates the use of TG if we have to lose other things to use it, whether its AP or Executioner in response to unigolyn.

[Corbusier]

Source: Tonypablos I'll repeat what Meeks and Corb said. DO NOT GEM FOR HIT!! DO NOT GEM FOR HIT!! DO NOT GEM FOR HIT!!

This would no longer be true in a TG scenario. Don't parrot what others post, understand the why behind what they post.

Hit is your most efficient DPS stat until your specials are capped. We currently don't socket for hit because 95 hit is so easy to obtain from gear. This won't be true in a TG build.

[Kazeyonoma]

Corb Sighting.

And as this may be true right now Corb, I think part of the problem is that gemming our current gear with hit, won't be as beneficial as keeping what we have, and getting new gear that is better itemized for hit AND other stats, AND gemming for hit. From what we can test, changing our current gear to just gem for hit instead is NOT helping =(

[Tatt]

Kaz stole my line I agree, TG IMO has become broken in that it will only be worthy at or near 80. I refuse to blow an obscene amount of gold to regem every piece of gear I own in the hopes that it will make this talent mediocre at best. Here's to hoping that blizzard makes some gear to back up the talent.

[Korlong]

I think you're not going to want to go all hit, as you need to maintain a certain level of crit in order to keep flurry up, and actually do damage/generate rage. This should be (somewhat) easier as you no longer have to worry about armor penetration, but I think the ideal would be to shoot for 30% crit then as much hit as you can get without taking shitty gear.

(I'm choosing 30% because I really can't see a fury build working without that.)

[Kazeyonoma]

30% unbuffed or in zerker, makes a big difference.

[Korlong]

Unbuffed of course!

I don't think it will be that bad with all the armor penetration you can offload. Two badge axes alone have 106 crit rating on them.

[Kazeyonoma]

Now, if I can save up enough badges to buy 2 of those axes before 3.0.... Nope, ha

Guess I'm stuck with my PvP sword and Mace for now =(

[Korlong]

I've got enough for one now, but I doubt i'm going to make two before release.

[Corbusier]

Source: Kazeyonoma From what we can test, changing our current gear to just gem for hit instead is NOT helping =(

I agree, and I did not propose that. A lot of our gear is ArP heavy (which will be much less valuable) and hit light (which would be much more valuable in a TG build).

[Tonypablos]

Corb, i understood what the statement said.

I also understand the importance of hit and why you said it: Youd o not gem for hit because at this time, during BC, we could get enough hit to cap at 9%

But tests show that right now even gemming hit period for TG will not be good enough. I gemmed 9 of my gems pure hit and saw a substancial decrease.

Right now I have no idea what the level 80 gear is but as it stands now, there is talk that TG at one point will be actually worse as the tier passes as you could be allocating stats to STr and Crit instead of hit and the way in which warriors should do by your guide states.

I've always supported yours and Meeks guide when it came to Fury DPS. In no way was I mocking or stating that I didn't understand why you said it. But the reasoning to my stating your quote is exactly that: an understanding of your methods and a general agreement to it even with TG, being a talent that completely goes against the basic foundations in which the Fury DPS tree was founded on.

That's my thoughts anyway.

[Tatt]

Not sure if anyone is taking this into account, but remember that rampage has changed....will the extra 5% crit offset the amount of unbuffed crit we need to carry? I do not really gem for crit right now other than to hit my meta requirements, but would it allow some higher geared individuals to not have to gem for crit knowing that they will have an extra 5% for what should be most of every fight?

[Darksend]

Source: Tattman2an Not sure if anyone is taking this into account, but remember that rampage has changed....will the extra 5% crit offset the amount of unbuffed crit we need to carry? I do not really gem for crit right now other than to hit my meta requirements, but would it allow some higher geared individuals to not have to gem for crit knowing that they will have an extra 5% for what should be most of every fight?

most guilds run a feral druid in the fury warriors group on live now as is in 25 mans so unless you never had a feral druid the crit is doing nothing

[Tatt]

I meant on an individual basis...I have been in plenty of raids with no feral..fury now can guarantee the extra 5% for themselves instead of depending on having a bear in their group/raid.

[Darksend]

Source: Tattman2an I meant on an individual basis...I have been in plenty of raids with no feral..fury now can guarantee the extra 5% for themselves instead of depending on having a bear in their group/raid.

sorry i misunderstood. but in what context, ive been following this whole thread and i didnt see

a) is this for 70, 80, or leveling
b) when you say solo do you mean like battlegrounds or like "hey i need rep im gona go farm the equivlent of fel arms and arcane tomes"

[Tatt]

I would say in all contexts...TG needs to work in everything we do, or it doesn't work at all. Same with rampage or any other talents. Fury warriors always need flurry up to maximize damage, whether in a raid or doing daily's, for flurry to stay up we need 30% plus crit, so rampage becomes a consideration.

[phaze]

Source: Corbusier A lot of our gear is ArP heavy (which will be much less valuable) and hit light (which would be much more valuable in a TG build).

Yeah, the TG miss penalty is counter to a lot of the plate itemization, and the goal of having gear be desirable across classes. Plate DPS gear generally provides enough +hit for non-TG scenarios: DKs, Paladins, Arms Warriors, Fury Warriors skipping TG. The bulk of the budget is then (ideally) invested in stats with better returns for those cases (Str/AP, crit, haste, etc).

Adding an extra set of Plate gear with excessive +hit would only be useful for TG Warriors. That's bad from the perspective of developing cross-class gear.

To fully support TG, you may need to wear Rogue +hit leather, in addition to gemming for hit. TG Warriors shouldn't be steered away from Plate, but that may not be avoidable with the hefty miss penalty. So TG Warriors may end up looking like Rogues with rage bars!

[mero12513]

Source: phaze Yeah, the TG miss penalty is counter to a lot of the plate itemization, and the goal of having gear be desirable across classes. Plate DPS gear generally provides enough +hit for non-TG scenarios: DKs, Paladins, Arms Warriors, Fury Warriors skipping TG. The bulk of the budget is then (ideally) invested in stats with better returns for those cases (Str/AP, crit, haste, etc). Adding an extra set of Plate gear with excessive +hit would only be useful for TG Warriors. That's bad from the perspective of developing cross-class gear. To fully support TG, you may need to wear Rogue +hit leather, in addition to gemming for hit. TG Warriors shouldn't be steered away from Plate, but that may not be avoidable with the hefty miss penalty. So TG Warriors may end up looking like Rogues with rage bars!

Blizzard made a pretty solid statement with Armored to the Teeth saying that they don't want this. I completely agree it could very well be the only logical conclusion to the current form of TG, but it's most definitely NOT the design that Blizzard intends.