[Legionodeath]

What the hell does the new nerf/buff/whatever mean? Id like to think of myself as a fairly intelligent person with a good grasp on the English language. I however, cannot, for the life of me understand the wording of this latest TG whatever-you-call-it. If someone can explain it, Id be most appreciative. Thank you.

TITANS GRIP- ...Also reduces your chance to hit with damage-dealing abilities that require a weapon from 1 to 0%.

-LoD

[Jardon]

the talent is currently bugged, and pretty much not implemented as is. It doesnt currrently allow you to equip anything in your offhand, wether it be two 2h's, or 2 1h's, or even a 1h and shield. so not only is the talent tooltip bugged, but the talent itself.

[Tonypablos]

At this time, it's brokedededed. So it doesn't really work. So don't bother even testing it right now until they unbrokededededed it.

[creepzor]

the 15% miss is for yellow attacks. it basically makes it so it's not as easy to cap yellow damage.

EDIT: When it works, unless they change the penalty, it's 15% miss to damage dealing attacks. the 1% to 0% is as people say, a bug.

[chops]

So 15% for Special (yellow) attacks on TG seems not as bad as the original fears of it being nerfed to Auto attacks' hit cap.

So unless I'm mistaken on this, this would mean we would need 12% (3% from 3/3 Precision) & thus we would be stacking something like 190 hit (or so) to soft cap Yellows with TG?

After seeing the amount of hit rating on some of the Lvl 80 Epics on MMO, I think that this 12% shouldn't be as bad to reach as initially feared.

[Arrivan]

Source: chops So 15% for Special (yellow) attacks on TG seems not as bad as the original fears of it being nerfed to Auto attacks' hit cap. So unless I'm mistaken on this, this would mean we would need 12% (3% from 3/3 Precision) & thus we would be stacking something like 190 hit (or so) to soft cap Yellows with TG? After seeing the amount of hit rating on some of the Lvl 80 Epics on MMO, I think that this 12% shouldn't be as bad to reach as initially feared.

It's in addition to the existing miss chance. You'd actually need 21% hit from gear to reach the special cap. It's doable in level 80 epics but your gear choices are really limited and it's completely impossible before that stage. Right now Titan's Grip is only viable once you're in full Naxx gear, which is unacceptable in my opinion.

[Tonypablos]

Yeah, it's not 12%, it's more like 21% which is FAR more hit than thought of. That's 600+ Hit alone and a lot of our gear doesn't have hit. So pretty much, this forces you with the TG spec not to even bother looking at the tier gear because it has pieces that have no hit rating whatsoever. Go figure, Blizzard makes yet more plate unitemizable! /sigh

[Manxmadman]

Can anyone actually clear is up at all, by having Titan's Grip, does it raise the soft cap for special attacks to 15% or to 24% because it seems people are of quite different opinions, and to many i suspect it means the difference between spec'ing to TG or not.

I mean currently I have 202 hit rating (12.81%), so with Precision 3/3, that gives me just over 15%, now if TG only raises the soft cap to 15% then I will be specc'ing into that post patch 3.0, and removing all my points in arms (down to impale for the increased crit dmg), however if the soft cap becomes 24% for TG then I'll keep my impale in Arms and chuck the spare points into other things.

[Arrivan]

http://www.tankspot.com/forums/damag...o-blogged.html

The penalty is most definitely in addition to the existing miss chance.

[Jardon]

being on beta, the penalty is definately in addition to the miss chance, so you'd need 21%, which at 80 that's 672 hit rating to cap specials, 21% or 32 HR per 1% at 80, which IMO is completely ludicrous. I specc'd out of TG in beta and went arms, Bladestorm is pretty brutal with a group of mobs, and if they dont do something to the penalty on TG, I'll probably stay arms. I currently have about 300 HR in my "TG gear", and that's with a couple naxx epics, and that's still 372 HR too little, which like Arrivan said you pretty much need to be in all Naxx epic's before you even come close.

[Arold]

Do you really need to get all the way to 21% though? There must be some earlier point at which the dps and stat benefits outweigh the occasional misses...

[Kazeyonoma]

That's the thing, in all of our DPS spreadsheets at level 70, we always assumed you were already hit capped, because missing an attack, is worse than hitting for say... 50 less damage. An entirely missed attack becomes 0, as opposed to having say, 100 less AP where you hit for maybe 20 less overall damage. That's why capping hit has always been our priority. With this penalty, leaving any chance to miss on our specials means streaky dps. If we're lucky and we don't miss many of our BT/Whirlwinds sure, our dps will look amazing, but in the same boat, if we start missing most of our BT/Whirlwinds our dps is gonna look dismal. And from a raid standpoint do you want to bring the guy who MIGHT be #1 or might be #11? or do you bring solid #2-5?

[Arrivan]

I've been browsing the beta forums and I've seen screenshots of some people doing ~2900 DPS on 10 man Patchwerk as TG Fury with only about 300something hit. I've yet to see how much DPS someone who is actually special capped could do with TG because it's so bloody hard to get capped right now. It is possible in (full) Naxx and other gear because I've posted a gear list showing so, but your other stats are complete trash compared (possibly an exaggeration) to what I've seen in other screenshots and almost nobody in the beta has the gear to cap. However the point Kazey raises about our DPS being very streaky is quite valid because bad luck with the RNG could put you down with the tanks.

That said, I've also seen pictures of an Arms warrior doing over 5000 DPS on Patchwerk.25 Fury is close IMO but our numbers still need looking at. There are quite a few talents that could stand to be streamlined and buffed too.

Big edit: Bloodsurge needs a HUGE buff too. Just going off that one TG DPS post Bloodsurge contributed a whole 1.9% of his DPS over the whole fight. Deep Wounds on the other hand contributed 16.2% of his DPS. I'll admit that the sample size is insufficiently small but it doesn't seem to be pulling its weight for three talent points. However it could have been the case that he simply ignored, missed or otherwise not used most of the procs, I don't know (but I don't think so). It's still unimpressive from my own experience on the PTR though.

Also:

[Narshe]

Currently, rogues are not able to reach the hit cap until tier6. My guess is we will become like them. Each piece of hit will improve our dps, but we are not getting 10 hit by losing like 30 crit and 90 Ap or something like that.
Excel spreadsheets would have the last word :P

[Brucimus]

Good to see that the Shard of Contempt still hanging around

Thanks for posting that great pic. Is that a DK at the number 2 Slot?

[Arrivan]

Source: Brucimus Good to see that the Shard of Contempt still hanging around Thanks for posting that great pic. Is that a DK at the number 2 Slot?

Yes it is.

[Tatt]

Nice pic! How is the enhance shammies spirit wolves measuring up? The talent seemed sort of underwhelming, but I am hearing good things about it, and I still have not made up my mind which way to go with my space goat nub shammy.

[Kazeyonoma]

I think he didn't use bloodsurge procs enough, when I did my testing, it went off a lot, but it gets some getting used to in order to pay attention to it to fire it off in time.

And tatt, from what I've seen when dueling them, the wolves deal a lot of damage, they basically pop them and expect people to die, if used properly in raids as long as they're not near the threat cap (is there even one nowadays) they can put out insane amounts of damage, the weirder coding will be do the pets suddenly gain all the buffs the shaman had? only totems? only auras? etc/etc.

[Arrivan]

Source: Kazeyonoma I think he didn't use bloodsurge procs enough, when I did my testing, it went off a lot, but it gets some getting used to in order to pay attention to it to fire it off in time.

You're probably right there. While I was on the PTR I was missing Bloodsurge procs left right and centre because it was very easy to miss (no pun intended). With a good SCT mod it should be more obvious though.

[Kazeyonoma]

yeh something to scream: SLAM DAMNIT! everytime it procs. I missed a lot, but the ones I got in were insane damage.