[Tonypablos]

**NOTE** Yes, this is up on my blog, but this is probably information that I think people would like to read about their DPS warriors and how they are faring at least at level 70. Many arguments can be made between spec choice, DPS rotations and as well as many other factors. those factors I will list at the end. It's a long read but I'm sure you guys will hopefully enjoy.

So here goes.

Gods the PTR is awful for lag!!!

There, I said it, it's out of my system, and it's the most redundant thing you could say. No kidding it's lagging, do you know how many people are jumping over just to try this out!? A lot, lemme tell you that much! And I was a fool enough to do so myself.

Now, skeptical with the whole TG counterbalance as many of you know, I decided to get my sorry rear end to Darnassus, figuring it probably is the least laggy place I can find a boss level mob...So I strapped Despair and Bloodmoon, put BT/WW/Slam and started.

You know what..? The misses weren't that bad. At 135 hit, I was hitting 3k Slams, 2.6k BTs and wow were the WWs big. nearly 4k WWs honestly...

And the misses? Yeah, sure, when I hit BT and saw a 'miss' shot, I cringed, but really, it honestly did not happen as often as I would of thought. Which leads me to believe that if we change our minds and try to keep say, around 200 hit rating like most T6 geared players would be right about now, the miss ratio would not be as painful as it seems.

Interestingly enough, I'm starting to doubt the tooltip that blizzard placed on TG. I'm now not convinced that TG's penalty is additive anymore. It just doesn't seem like it. Maybe it's just that I got lucky, maybe it's because a horseshoe or two were found on the rear end of my toon, but it really did not seem like it was a big deal.

Time will tell, but without a DPS meter of some sort, I won't be able to know if the DPS out of using my two handers is greater than my one handers.

Oh, and rotation wise? I dropped HS, and focused on making sure BT and WW were always on CD. With that, during the downtime, I would slam. Yes. I would take the 1.5 second wait and slam. Some of the slams were 3k hits depending on where my AP was situation too. When BT would proc the bloodsurge, I'd instantly hit slam as well for a nice bit. And with the Deathwish talent down to 2 minutes, it makes it even nicer to put up more damage every bit of time.


Reck's nice, but I think too short. Not enough charges on it to really see it go off. I don't know how many charges it is but it just seems to go off real fast. Also the swing times were nice..granted I have DST equipped still so the haste speed when it procs is a blessing in disguise.

Oh and for those who say those dummies parry a lot? Uh..stand behind them like a raid boss...you won't ever see parries. And I mean ever. >.>;

I'm now more than ever curious as to how this will go live. With the lag, it makes the game a little unberable and unfortunately with WWS not working with the new patch, I don't have much resources to hand out. I'll keep you all informed as I go along and figure out what would be best...if I ever get an answer as to a DPS meter like recount that is accurate and shows hit/miss ratios.

Yes, I've been spoiled by WWS, sue me.

EDIT: New info and Screenshots.

I've finally had a day where there wasn't much lag and I had a decent try at the Dummy boss without interrupts and so far, between the WWS I took from the level 54/55 mob and the Recount shots I've taken off the dummy, TG IS a DPS upgrade by about 400 points! Now, this could mean that I may of screwed up with my rotation, but I will be putting some screenshots to allow people to look at what I've done so far...just as soon as Photobucket decides to load up for me.

Spec 1: http://talent.mmo-champion.com/?warr...12253120501351


As you can see, there's a main focus in the tree with TG. Being level 70, going 51 points is a must, and I really did not think the extra 3 points was truly worth it in Arms so I just got 7 points there for *preperation* purposes to Wrath and leveling. Improved Berserker is actually quite useful when you get those drouts of misses with your white damage. And the rotation I chose that made most sense was to drop HS and use a slam rotation similar to a tanking rotation:

BT/WW/Slam/Slam and then BT and WW and simply slam whenever you have the chance. This way, no matter what, i would catch the free slam that BT would proc if crit, and just let a slam go to make sure Battle Shout was up. I will put up some screenshots just as soon as I can find a hosting service that doesn't suck like Photobucket...Gods..so slow. 10 minutes of waiting and still no option to choose a folder.

Anyway, the jist of it:

135 Hit
2050 AP
About 32% Crit

Total DPS: 1492.7 DPS
Melee Miss chance: 13.8% (37.6% damage done)
Slam Miss chance: 21% (29.7% damage done)
WW Miss chance: 11.5% (16.4% damage done)
BT Miss chance: 16% (16% damage done)

My slams were second in the list, followed by WW and then BT. Not sure how that happened, I may have to tune up my reflexes to hit BT instead of WW when both come up. However, WW is doing more damage than BT currently because of the two 2 handers as it was third in my damage list. (Or probably because I used WW more than I should of compared to BT. Just weird.)

Tests show that TG's penalty, with a 8.5% hit + Precision does make it that it's additive. I must of gotten really unlucky with my slams however as it surpasses the 24% needed. Go figure.

Test 2: http://talent.mmo-champion.com/?warr...12253120511350

Again I went deep fury, but this time I decided to ignore TG and just stick with my two 1 handers: Fury and my Wicked Edge. Now, one thing you have to realize: Only my bloodmoon had an enchant, and that was executionner. Despair still hasn't gotten savagery so that's about 70 AP lost. With my 1 handers, I have Mongoose/Potency (didn't think I'd keep the 1 hander honestly).

Sats:

155 hit
1958 AP
About 30 Crit (Think that went lower than live =/ )

Total DPS: 1280.4 DPS
Melee Miss chance: 13.8% (36.2% damage done)
Heroic Strike: 0% (22.9% damage done)
BT Miss chance: 0% (19.1% damage done)
WW Miss chance: 0% (14.2% damage done)
Slam Miss chance: 0% (7.6% damage done)

So, the rage generation was kinda the same, however I found that I was probably using HS a bit too much as I saw my icons during their Cooldowns not be lit up unlike the TG spec. Also, now that I think about it, I probably should of gone 8 points into Prot and gotten Incite for extra HS damage. I'll try that spec out afterwards. So the misses are gone, however you still are actually lower on the DPS than the TG build. Interesting..

Test 3: http://talent.mmo-champion.com/?warr...12253120501350

This is a lil different and probably a better dps spec than my arms build up to level spec. Incite should add more oomph to my HS damage and as thus give me more damage, correct? Let's see.

155 hit
1958 AP
About 30 Crit

Total DPS: 1460.0 DPS
Melee Miss chance: 10.4% (37.1% damage done)
Heroic Strike: 0% (24.2% damage done)
BT Miss chance: 0% (17.9% damage done)
WW Miss chance: 0% (12.7% damage done)
Slam Miss chance: 0% (8.2% damage done)

I got the whole BT/Slam process down but again I saw some problems sometimes with rage. Again I probably overdid it with the HS but so far, it's not too terribly harder, you just have to remember to hit your slam key when you see a big number off BT for extra damage. Damage is damage and I'll take it anywhere it comes.

So the DPS came out at 1460 exactly. still a bit below TG but nothing too bad. So in the end, that's a 30 point increase. It's an increase like Blizzard stated it should be, but it really is one of those 'is it worth it'?

Finally, for fun, I'm going to do a sudden death build. All the prior builds had no executes as dummies don't go below 20%. I'm a fan of what Serennia showed on his damage with an arms build so I decided that I'd have some fun and try it out. Granted, this would PROBABLY be better if I had two of the same weapons, but you do what you can right?

Test 4: http://talent.mmo-champion.com/?warr...00000000000000

So this is an odd spec and it's probably not what Serennia went with, but this is what I'm going to try out at 70. The main focus of this build will be the bleeds/OP and Sudden Death. Unfortunately, this is going to have to wait. I'll update the build and the damage when I come back from class.

[Steakums]

Sudden Death isn't going to be worthwhile, as it is now, sure you can do Execute damage but then your rage is gone..far better to pickup Imp Slam + 1 point to spare for some other talent...word to the wise. Bleeds are nice, NO SW will be missed as I seemed to get Stunned alot in Beta.

Rest of your info seems on the level, I personally have found more use out of leveling as MS so far, haven't had the time or inclination to try leveling as Prot..I'll mess with it on live.

[Felsen]

I am on the test realm as well since yesterday.


After I was done with testing Prot the next specc I did was TG and I was prepared for the worst tbh.

But in reality its not as bad as expected. I only got around 135 hit rating myself and you definitely notice a couple more misses than on live, but I think if they would finetune the penalty to like 10% miss we could definitely live with it.

I didnt test the dps on raid bosses yet, but I did kill some random mobs in SMV and the burst is really really big. Whirlwind hits like a truck and if you get a Slam/WW in it hurts a lot.

As already mentioned by Tony you often dont got the time to set up a proper rotation as your white crits just destroy everything in like 2-3 swings. Rage bar was definitely completely full most of the time and in case of unlucky miss chains you still got Berserker Rage to pimp up your rage.

I tested 2H + Shield as well and the combined burst you get from BT and Shield Slam is definitely fun. I expected BT and SS to share the cooldown, but this was not the case! They did share the global cooldown, but it was not like BT putting up the timer on SS as well (which I somehow expected).

The quick tests I did were done with 135 hit, 28% crit without rampage, 2300 Attackpower, Jin Rokh with Executioner as Mainhand and the Merciless Glad sword with Savagery in Offhand.

As soon as I manage to get addons running on the client I will try to run some heroics/raids and see how the dps is.

[Bayho]

I had more fun putting on a shield and wielding Jin'rohk with Titan's Grip, than two 2-handed weapons. With Bloodthirst healing and getting the Fireblood heal from the Ashtongue Talisman of Valor from both Shield Slams and Bloodthirsts, I had not trouble keeping my health up. With all the Strength I still had 550 block value.

[Brucimus]

t seems I was overreacting a little

just slightly. Along with much of the weak minded negative nancys in the Warrior community.

It's so true how bad news is always on the front page and retractions and good stories are in the back

[Tonypablos]

Source: Brucimus just slightly. Along with much of the weak minded negative nancys in the Warrior community. It's so true how bad news is always on the front page and retractions and good stories are in the back

Ain't that the truth. I posted a link to the site as well as these findings and I think the reply is now in the third or fourth page. All people do is complain about things they haven't even tested. It's as if they can't seem to want to do the work to even find out the truth..oh wait, that's LAZINESS! -.-

Sorry, kinda annoys me that I wanna shut the naysayers up and they don't even pay much attention to hard facts, just cry about stuff that they can't do anything about. This is why I've been putting myself in more of a mindset of staying on these forums and working with people who actually give two cents about what people think. It's refreshing.

[Jardon]

I can understand wanting to quiet all the people who say TG is bad and all, and I'll admit, I've been one of them, especially after this newest nerf, but that's only because I'm in the beta, I've seen it through all it's other variations, and I've seen how it performs at lvl 80 with nearly 300 hit, and it's still really spikey as far as dmg and rage generation goes because of this new 15% hit nerf. I'm glad that they acknowledge that they may have overly nerfed things, but I'll hold my final opinion until I see what they do next.

[Chosenx]

Also, it seems like you are testing on boss mobs near darnassus? Were these lvl 60ish bosses or 70ish bosses?

Because if they are around the 60ish range of course you will not be missing much at all.

[Tonypablos]

Source: Chosenx Also, it seems like you are testing on boss mobs near darnassus? Were these lvl 60ish bosses or 70ish bosses? Because if they are around the 60ish range of course you will not be missing much at all.

They were level Boss level, which skulls, which I must presume level 73. But the thing is that I had a miss rate that does work with what's going on with our talents, which would not explain if they were the level 60s. No, I'm pretty sure it's level 73s otherwise I sincerely don't think I'd get that many misses when I did spec TG.

[Chosenx]

Not a problem then, just wanted to make sure it wasnt like a lvl 63 cos that would stuff up the numbers.

I spose the best way to find out if it is worth it will be to experiment once 3.0 comes out. I keep wws of my raids now, and i'll just go TG in kara and see what happens as kara isn't an instance where if i miss a bit more it will make a big difference lol (ie. i can afford to test specs in there).

I don't suppose there is enough people you know on the ptr to try raids out though? That would be the best indication by far.

What i would really like to know is whether I should start organising a decent 2nd 2her if TG is really worth it. Looking at the 150 badge one or a pvp one, but if it isn't worth getting the talent then i won't save up for them.

[Tonypablos]

Unfortunately no one is quite as 'passionnate' as I am when it comes to working out DPS specs for warriors. My GM's personal enjoyment is to poke and prod me about how he really doesn't care about the mechanics of his class other than his druid and he knows that kinda gets me riled up. Kinda blame the french canadian in me >.>

Anyway, I still have to play with Sudden Death but I need dailys. Wiping on Council has made my shammy waste 70g so far and I need an epic on my warrior for Wrath.

[Chosenx]

Yeah I definately think it is worth knowing all the ins and outs of your class, and hate people who don't go to the effort to find out. However I don't have the time to do extensive testing myself, which is why I appreciate posts like this one.

Good work.

[Tonypablos]

Alright, here's the rest of the tests folks

So the MS Sudden Death spec was interesting. I really didn't have a rotation here. in battle stance, i had rend up as much as I could to keep OP to proc, and whenever Execute lit up, I gave it priority. I saw some insane numbers come up but really? The DPS was not that great. In fact, it was rather lacking..I'll post in Battle Stance and Berserker Stance. The difference between both stance is that I would not OP or Rend at all in the Zerker stance, but replace with WW and save rage for big executes. That didn't go as well as i think and people may have to modify this build and find a proper rotation as I could simply not find something that made most sense. I topped off higher than TG at one point but it slipped down real fast.

155 hit
1882 AP (Lost some AP due to Fury buffs not being there. Blah!)
About 32 Crit (Battle) 35 (berserk)

Total DPS: 1302.7 DPS
Melee Miss chance: 19.2% (34.1% damage done)
Execute: 0% (31.8% damage done)
Ms Miss Chance: 0% (15.0% damage done)
Overpower miss chance: 0% (8.7% damage done)
DoTs (Rend/Deep Wounds): 0% (10.3% damage done)

Zerker Stance:

Total DPS: 1276.5 DPS
Melee Miss chance: 13.8% (31.5% damage done)
Execute Miss chance: 0% (21.5% damage done)
MS Miss chance: 0% (16.6% damage done)
WW Miss chance: 0% (19.5% damage done)
DoTs(Deep Wounds): 0% (8.8% damage done)

This was used using two one handers to try to generate as much rage as possible. And holy Gods were you not getting any rage with this spec. MS was a lot of the time blank because of an execute and again it could be blamed on me not having any rotation whatsoever.

I think I'm about to cry now >.>

I decided to try a 20/41 spec. yes, 20/41 fury/PROT spec. This is without the 10 extra points in Fury here to help with DPS...but to say the least, I stayed in full dps gear and I gotta say...I'm going to cry now..

155 hit
1958 AP
About 30 Crit (Think that went lower than live =/ )

Total DPS: 1650.3 DPS
Devastate Miss chance: 0% (39.5% damage done)
Melee miss chance: 18.2% (25.5% damage done)
Heroic Strike Miss chance: 0% (12.6% damage done)
WW Miss chance: 0% (17.6% damage done)
Concussion Blow: 0% (4.9% damage done)

Wow. I'm shocked and amazed. About 150 DPS HIGHER than our 51 point talent in Fury. That's just insane. And thinking of the 10 extra points I could get in Fury, such as Death Wish, Precision, Weapon mastery which lowers my dodge by 2%, Flurry for faster rage more Devastates/HS...dear Gods, that might be insane dps right there! The rotation was simple: Get rage, spam devastate, WW when it's up, Conc when it was up, and Queue up HS whenever I had 40+ rage seeing I didn't have big talents to worry about like BT or MS.

**END NOTES**

This is by far not a complete test. This shows how we do against level 73 bosses on a level 70 basis. This is by no means a guess as to what will happen at level 80, but for the month or so we will play with 3.02, tests show that TG is a viable, dps upgrade. Of about maybe 30 points...It is one to be concerned about considering it's a 51 point talent and it should give us a bit more, but many other factors can be accounted for the lack of dps: Changes in the tree, plus the mechanics in which TG would function better under aka more hit.

Hopefully this has helped anyone that needed any help or advice as to how well we'll do once 3.02 comes in. The grind to 80 will make things interesting but we're not completely lost...Until wrath hits. Then well..you better start gearing rogue wise or not bother getting the TG talent till you can even remotely use it without cringing and seeing misses all over.

[Narshe]

Just a note: Why don't u upload your screens to TankSpot? We have a pic hosting service, and can be.... well, shall be used to host these kind of screens.

[Tonypablos]

Source: Narshe Just a note: Why don't u upload your screens to TankSpot? We have a pic hosting service, and can be.... well, shall be used to host these kind of screens.

Because I'm braindead and didn't notice you could do that until I actually did a quote reply on the forums instead of just doing a quick reply. One second..this should hopefully work out.



Test 1: DPS with Titan's Grip



Test 2: DPS without Titan's Grip



Test 3: DPS Spec Non Titan's Grip + Prot Incite



Test 4: Sudden Death DPS in Battle Stance



Test 5: Sudden Death DPS in Berzerker Stance

I unfortunately lost the Prot DPS one. Lame...Hopefully showing these five, you can trust the number 6's number. If there is enough demand for it, I'll do another run at it with the prot spec and link what I used. It was more for amusement than anything but it was kinda scary the DPS I pulled up. I just might have to do it again to see if it actually made any sense for it to be so damn high.

[Jardon]

yeah, I had tried a Prot/Fury DPS spec before, it didnt really suit me, the lack of rotation kinda made it boring, although it did put up some surprising numbers, part of the reason fury and arms warriors are so pissed atm that a "non-DPS" spec is putting up those kinds of numbers and the DPS specs arent. We'll see in the long run wether blizzard does anything about it though.

[Tonypablos]

Source: Jardon yeah, I had tried a Prot/Fury DPS spec before, it didnt really suit me, the lack of rotation kinda made it boring, although it did put up some surprising numbers, part of the reason fury and arms warriors are so pissed atm that a "non-DPS" spec is putting up those kinds of numbers and the DPS specs arent. We'll see in the long run wether blizzard does anything about it though.

Yeah but it was kinda asanine to see how a fury/prot build, no less the points MORE in prot than fury, is outdoing all of our 51 point talents. I'm almost tempted to check out how Arms dps is with the basic rotation of White > Slam > Ms, White, Slam, WW like normal arms/fury is at this time. I'll have to fiddle with some stuff.

But it's kinda sad to see the damage of a prot warrior going a bit in fury doing more damage than any spec in the game right now...granted, it probably is insane threat as well if Heroic Strike still has it's innate threat as HS is used A LOT in the dps rotation.

Not sure if I listed this but the rotation I used was pretty much Spam Devastate and if over 40 rage, key up HS. Make sure battle shout was up. WW when it was up...40 rage ont he sole fact that the only one we're really worried about to make sure that the CD is always up is WW really.

[shiz98]

From my testing, a splam rotation is much better than a standard Slam rotation. I'll be posting up some numbers on that soon...

[Tonypablos]

Now, this is something I've been waiting for a little while now and I'm happy to be finally able to test this.

Blizzard was smart enough to give us the level 70 dummies once more, which is nice enough to try to do some tests. This won't affect raid, but it doesn't have to.

There was a debate on the ChatBox about stacking more hit will give you more damage. This is to prove that not only will stacking hit lower your DPS, but it lowers it by a decent amount:

Stats:

2145 AP,
205 Hit,
34.13 Crit.

My hit is a lot higher and with the other attempt, I didn't have Armored to the Teeth to help out. My rotation was again the same rotation I used back in the first test with BT/WW/Slam/Slam with HS when you have the rage.

...Quite disappointing:

Total DPS: 1313.8

...That's under 150 dps than the one where I was only at 135 hit rating...That's shocking.



I...really don't know what to say anymore. To make TG viable, you need to stop making your yellow damage miss. But by stacking hit, you're lowering BT, WW and Slam Damage. And if this is any indication: Your white damage does NOT raise it enough to be competitive.

Your thoughts are always welcomed.

[Chosenx]

My thoughts are i will probably be speccing prot come 3.0 now lol. And that really dissapoints me.