[Corbusier]

How would a screenshot prove anything? I've talked to a few people with access to every piece of gear in the game that prefer having a fast offhand due to rage overcapping, and I am beginning to experience this myself. This is essentially wasted potential DPS, and the effect is lessened by using a fast offhand.

Either way, the difference would end up being extremely small, especially since WW dps isn't the key benefit of a slow offhand, flurry uptime is.

[Corbusier]

I am currently working on an update for WotLK, including but not limited to:

Spec/talent updates
new hit/crit etc conversion numbers
ArP changes
Deep Wounds changes

Any input is appreciated.

[Tatt]

HOLY SHIT CORB SIGHTING!!!!!


hi corb

[Corbusier]

GD tatt at least make yourself useful

[Tatt]

Wow that hurt....

My biggest question for you would be your opinion on ArP for dps warriors...while waiting for the xpac I am potentially picking up a few T6 odds and ends, and possibly a badge piece or two, but people's comments about how bad ArP has become have me slightly unsure what to get. Whatcha think about it?

[ebs2002]

My input would be relating to Deep Wounds. Currently, it's bugged, and thus makes slow/fast better than slow/slow. Blizz will be changing this soon. If you're going to talk about DW fury with Deep Wounds, be aware of that change.

Also, the simpler you can keep Deep Wounds, the better. The key is that each crit does 48% of weapon damage, over time. Stacking the ticks as high as possible is fun, but "deep wounds uptime" is meaningless (if the dot is ticking for 2k, then isn't refreshed, you didn't suddenly lose 2k DPS because you didn't crit). Each crit is just as important as the last, and it doesn't matter how frequently it occurs.

Of course, getting to 2k dmg/tick is still fun, in the same respect that getting a high Shield Slam crit is fun.

[Tatt]

Thought of another question...comparing a 20/51/0 TG build to 28/42/0....using axe spec and getting trauma...would the 5% crit and 5% extra crit damage, plus the trauma effect, along with losing the 5% hit nerf, outweigh TG and procced slams for damage?

[ebs2002]

I doubt it, if you're using comparable weapons.

Extra crit damage from axes isn't a huge damage increase. It brings you from 2.2 to 2.26 modifier on your crits. If a normal attack does 500dmg, a normal crit does 1000. With impale, it's 1100. With Axe spec, it's 1130. Decent, but not huge. 5% crit is pretty big, but I'd say that the extra stats from wielding a second 2h weapon negates that.

And with TG, your weapons hit considerably harder, your specials won't be missing if you have balanced gear with the requisite hit rating, and Imp WW is considerably better with TG than without.

I'd venture that they're pretty similar in DPS overall, and that TG being better on trash will win out.

But I'm just speculating...

[Tatt]

You are probably right, I just saw 5% crit, which means putting warriors nearly 50% or greater raid buffed, 5% crit damage (zomg I love scaling stat modifiers) sweeping strikes, plus an extra 15% damage on the already aforementioned deep wounds....I have enjoyed TG so far, I already walked around with about 180-190 hit rating, so 5% does not really hurt me much, jsut looking at all my options.

[Corbusier]

Source: ebs2002 My input would be relating to Deep Wounds. Currently, it's bugged, and thus makes slow/fast better than slow/slow. Blizz will be changing this soon. If you're going to talk about DW fury with Deep Wounds, be aware of that change.

Do you have a link to this change? I can't seem to find anything.

My biggest question for you would be your opinion on ArP for dps warriors...while waiting for the xpac I am potentially picking up a few T6 odds and ends, and possibly a badge piece or two, but people's comments about how bad ArP has become have me slightly unsure what to get. Whatcha think about it?

It's been hit pretty hard, at least at current boss AC levels. 17%ish loss on 7700ac bosses, and a whopping 43% loss on 6200ac bosses. Math will be included of course.

[Tonypablos]

I'm actually eagerly awaiting Corb to write his Wrath guide so I can compare his thoughts to what I've experienced so far. It'll be interesting.

My only thing I wanna see is a slam versus hs discussion in the thread as this has been a hot topic and I'm still convinced Slam > HS due to non normalization + using a two hander for that. HS is just a lot of threat and slam with 2 hander spec + deep wounds tick makes me wanna think 18/53 or 17/54 to be the specs I'd be going for with TG.

Eagerly waiting to see the findings, Corb. Feel free to look up the DPS stuff I put up through the threads if you need to.

[Kazeyonoma]

are you strictly going by DW, therefore only TG? or are you gonna include possible non-TG specs?

Any chance someone wants to write up an Arms DPS guide now that Meeks is a p******n?

[Tatt]

Arms is simple right now...white attack, MS, slam, bladestorm...OH SHIT AGGRO...dead...rinse and repeat for even greater repair bills

[Corbusier]

Source: Kazeyonoma are you strictly going by DW, therefore only TG? or are you gonna include possible non-TG specs? Any chance someone wants to write up an Arms DPS guide now that Meeks is a p******n?

From my napkin math so far, a TG build (18/53 or so) will beat any non-TG fury spec. But I will test when I hit 80.

I do not plan to do an arms guide at this time, but who knows.

[ickotot]

I'm just starting out as a warrior (I was a hunter before) and I created a dwarf warrior...how can i maximize my DPS? what weapon should i use in order to do so? sorry noob here started playing wow last2 week

[ebs2002]

Corb, the reference I saw to Deep Wounds being changed was on Elitist Jerks: [Warrior] WotLK talent Preview/Discussion - Page 138 - Elitist Jerks


I'm working on Arms theorycrafting to be able to write an arms guide. Just with how different arms is, it's not easy. Fury didn't get overhauled that much, the 51pt talent just gives you bigger weapons and makes you need more hit rating. Easy to comprehend. The rotation hasn't really changed much.

Arms has been greatly changed. Rend>Overpower, Slam not resetting the swing timer, Sudden Death. Lots of changes that completely change the math.

The rotation, especially, is grossly different. There's a right time and a wrong time to execute. Some gear/buff makeups, you shouldn't use Mortal Strike at all; other levels, you need to or you're losing a ton of DPS.

But to answer that question, I do plan on writing an arms guide, once I get everything else done.

[Tonypablos]

What ebs said is pretty much true from what I've seen. The standard BT/WW rotation will stay put, but it's the dump that I'm more interested in.

Slam versus Heroic Strike. Even with a 1.5 second timer, you could slam once in your rotation without hurting your dps and depending weapon speed and crit chance, you probably could potentially put out more dps with less worry about pulling threat.

[ebs2002]

I dunno about that, Tony.

Slam on a 1.5sec timer is horrible for my gear. Using my spreadsheet without Imp Slam:

Slam's delay of my white swing timer costs me an average 621dmg and 13.1rage. Average damage of my slam winds up being 590, or 21 Dmg/Rage, taking the losses into consideration.

That's with only one 2h weapon equipped. A second 2her would increase my rage generated from white attacks even higher, which would drive up my rage cost and damage lost from slamming.

(Just to compare the numbers, with the same stats and spec, but 2/2 Imp Slam, I'm losing 4.4rage, 207dmg, and slam deals an average of 1170 for an average of 60dmg/rage). I can't imagine Heroic Strike NOT being a better dump.

[Corbusier]

Source: ebs2002 I can't imagine Heroic Strike NOT being a better dump.

Agreed. Slam works if you don't have haste buffs beyond flurry, or at least that's how it's looking in my testing. Once you get in a raid environment, you tend to be swinging a lot faster, not to mention moving around more often than not.

[ebs2002]

Windfury Totem: Rage's best friend, Slam's worst enemy.