[Corbusier]

I get what you're saying. But yea, I'd sure like to know when.

This is why I linked spreadsheets. So you can figure these things out on your own. Most put the break point around 4k AP raid buffed.

[GarrettJaxx]

Source: loquatious I think the logic of Crit > AP is when you calculate the value of the stats in item costs at some point the value of a crit exceeds the value of just improving the base damage. For example at 10,000 ap increasing AP by 10 is a negligable change, but the value of doing 1.5 times damage is much better. So at some point Crit is better than AP but at what point is the question

Come back and be sure to tell us what your testing shows you. Sometimes just having enough people go out and try something is just as valuable as epeen math skillz. GL!

[Dragaan]

Source: Corbusier This is why I linked spreadsheets. So you can figure these things out on your own. Most put the break point around 4k AP raid buffed.

According to the spreadsheets, ap > crit for me even close to 5k buffed. Reason I was asking is because of what I've been hearing tons of people say about the magic "2200" or whatever... Sometimes spreadsheets aren't 100% accurate and since I am a tank in raids, I was just wondering if any DPS warriors have any suggestions.

[Corbusier]

I'm well aware that spreadsheets aren't 100% accurate, but they're close enough for this exercise.

There isn't any 'magic 2200' number to shoot for.

I've found that in late BT gear, your AP is high compared to your crit, so I've been socketing str/crit gems. As you move into Sunwell, items tend to have more crit, so I plan to socket str to keep a balance. Balancing your stats is more important than some arbitrary number.

[Tatt]

Hey corb - if the guild I am in is starting to phase out kara run's, and badges become less available due to my RL schedule, are the claws of phoenix or claws of moolten fury nearly as good? I have the badge fist OH already, just seeing if it is an imperative to save up for MH.

[IttIcKlEs]

great guide i am currently lvl37 tauren warrior(have a 70 human warrior on hellcream as well)and going furry for my guild this will help me alot thx corb

[ebs2002]

Tatt: the Hyjal claws are nearly as good as the badge fist if they're available to you. Obviously, the badge claws are better, but if you're on a badge-budget (man, that phrase just sounds awesome to me), and the Hyjal MH drops for you, may as well pick em up and put the badge MH on the back-burner while you spend your badges elsewhere.

[Tatt]

Yeah, just harder and harder to get kara runs in lately, sitting at 30 badges at the moment, all I still need is badge ring and MH claw. Once I pick up those I do not think you will ever see me in kara or a heroic again

[ebs2002]

I've been living off of the occasional heroic, and the badges from running SSC 5/6 and TK 3/4 for a few weeks.

It's slow as hell, and I wish I could hit up Kara. I still need the OH fist and mail gloves ><

[Tatt]

S4 gloves now, Martial Perfection if I get lucky, screw the badge ones, I will be happy till Silent Justice come my way.

[discokill]

First off thanks for putting together this great guide. It's been a ton of help as I made the switch from Arms to Fury.

One question that I didn't see addressed anywhere. On the suggested talent tree you have 3 points in Thunder Clap but TC isn't mentioned anywhere else. I've gotten my rotation down pretty well so far and it's not something I use at all (though I'm very open to being wrong). Wouldn't Iron Will be a better place for those points? Granted you said anything in that area is up to personal preference but why use TC at all?

Thanks

[Tatt]

If there is not a warrior in the raid TC is your job to help mitigate boss damage to the tank. Stance dancing sucks, but oh well.

[ebs2002]

The one bright side if you're stuck on TC duty: if your expertise isn't maxed (it probably isn't), you will occasionally see overpower light up! Yay, a new skill!

*rolls eyes* okay, that's not really a bright side when you're only dealing 400dmg on your overpower. I try

[Tatt]

LOL that's like saying its nice dropping into defensive so you can throw a revenge out there

[discokill]

got it. Thanks for the info. We're usually got a warrior in the raids so I never thought to use it.

[Corrodin]

Source: BoomBeef Heck, I'm thinking of going back to prot. spec to be able to run ZA so I can get that ArP bow as well now that Davi brought it up. Still kind of tough for me to get into ZA runs as Fury irregardless of the truckload of DPS I can do but oh well. Must get more ArP!

A nice set up for ZA that lets you be fury and a huge asset to the group is bring your tank gear.

I usually roll with a Prot pally so he tank everything except: Human phase of Bear boss, Dragonhawk, and half of the Lynx (just stand and split lash). Super easy and also min/maxs raid set-up. Bear runs are fun.

[Huangism]

Source: Corrodin A nice set up for ZA that lets you be fury and a huge asset to the group is bring your tank gear. I usually roll with a Prot pally so he tank everything except: Human phase of Bear boss, Dragonhawk, and half of the Lynx (just stand and split lash). Super easy and also min/maxs raid set-up. Bear runs are fun.

You don't tank the troll phase on bear boss? I have never seen a prot pally tank the bear phase since it hits a lot harder lol

on the question of using a slow/slow or a slow/fast for fury, I have always used slow/fast and i have always out dpsed slow/slow. My gear is about t5-t6 quality (with no T6 pieces) and i have out dpsed 4 piece t6 warriors with 1300 armor penetration using slow/slow combo. i am sure the other better geared warriors are skilled since they are in higher ranked guilds and raids on a regular basis.

[Kazeyonoma]

I appreciate your anecdotal data about Slow/fast beating out slow/slow, but if all DPS and stats are equal, and you have an offhand that is 1.6 speed, or an offhand that is 2.6 speed. the 2.6 speed, combined with the same MH you've been using, will outdps the 1.6 speed. This isn't anecdotal, this isn't me being elitist, this isn't us throwing out randomness at you, it is proven mathematically, through spreadsheets, and in WWS parses and test data.

[Corbusier]

Spreadsheets cannot ever cover the gamut of in-game scenarios.

[Kazeyonoma]

Which is of course true, and I wouldn't rely solely on spreadsheets, but 1 scenario where he gives advice but has no mathematical backing or even a screenshot to prove it is hard pressed for me to believe when so many people from both this website, and elitistjerks has shown that since the whirlwind change, Slow/Slow has beaten out slow/fast.