[sejer]

Thanks guys for the new revision of the guide, always nice to have a good compilation to refer to!

Source: Drahk Words...

What are you doing in here, Drahk? Get back in the tank cupboard where you belong! :P



And now for my question. We just killed Illidari Council this week and we have little problem killing most other BT bosses, which means some more gear options are opening up. My next upgrade is likely to be either head or legs and I would like to get some idea of what gear I should prioritise.

Armoury link

In case I am logged out in PVP gear, here is a brief summary of my PVE (unbuffed) stats:
2100AP
33% crit
14% hit (186 hit rating + precision)
518 ArP
2x 2.6 speed weapons
Most of my gear is from BT/MH

At the moment I use [Fel-Steel Warhelm] and [Greaves of the Bloodwarder] and so these slots will be my next upgrades.

So I am thinking of holding out for [Leggings of Devine Rebtribution] and [Helm of the Illidari Shatterer] because I love ArP and the helm is just lovely anyway.

There are always the T6 legs and head but I don't really like them as much for DPS as I feel the aforementioned are better (also, don't really like the agility on the T6 stuff). We also have [Legguards or Endless Rage], which are nice but I prefer the ArP on the Bloodboil ones.

So, should I definately wait for the two items that I really want to drop or do you think I am being too particular and that T6 is OK? The main reason I ask is that I feel the ArP on the legs will pretty much finish my ArP collection and then I will be a happy chappy. As for the head, the main reason here is that I am pretty much next in line for the T6 head and the Council helm might not drop for a long time but I am weary of losing 30 hit rating from my head. I am not working towards any T6 bonuses at the moment but I do have the gloves in the bank.


Also, you will see I have zero expertise at the moment. I have been looking at [Shard of Contempt] but I have a feeling it's going to involve me going prot just to get in the instance. How badly should I try to get this item?


All comments and criticism welcome!

[Corbusier]

Again, thanks for your response, but questions like this are best addressed the the Armory Ratings Subforum.

[Corbusier]

Added Bagelbite's ArP calculator to the Stats section:

World Of Warcraft Armor Penetration Damage Increase Calculator

[Spaceknight]

Is there a time when your normal rotation would outdps an execute spam other then having crappier execute weapons? I heard that at around BT/Hyjal Level, normal rotations will outdps execute, but I'm not sure of this.

[GarrettJaxx]

Source: Spaceknight Is there a time when your normal rotation would outdps an execute spam other then having crappier execute weapons? I heard that at around BT/Hyjal Level, normal rotations will outdps execute, but I'm not sure of this.

A question like this is best answered looking through your own WWS (Wow Web Stats). The differences between fights, time on target, and your own raid-buffed stats have everything to do with the answer.

I feel like not enough Fury warriors are using this useful tool. It really should be looked at for entire raids, too.

[Mediumwell]

Is there a time when your normal rotation would outdps an execute spam other then having crappier execute weapons? I heard that at around BT/Hyjal Level, normal rotations will outdps execute, but I'm not sure of this.

From EJ's:

Yes, Bloodthirst does outperform Execute per 30 rage at certain levels of Attack Power. Those levels are as follows:

1. 0/2 Imp Execute, 0/4 t6: 2755.5 AP
2. 0/2 Imp Execute, 2/4 t6: 2895.5 AP
3. 2/2 Imp Execute, 0/4 t6: 2988.8 AP
4. 2/2 Imp Execute, 2/4 t6: 3128.8 AP

So if your ap is at these levels and the boss is <20% use bloodthirst when your rage goes over 30.

[GarrettJaxx]

Source: Mediumwell From EJ's: Yes, Bloodthirst does outperform Execute per 30 rage at certain levels of Attack Power. Those levels are as follows:[list=1][*]0/2 Imp Execute, 0/4 t6: 2755.5 AP

Things like this make me highly suspect. I get 30 rage in less than a second, and I am always well above 2755 AP by the time a boss is at 20%, what with Rampage and Battleshout and countless other raid buffs. So this is telling me sort of to never Execute? I mean - a full rage bar, sure, but then just spam Bloodthirst? I dunno, sometimes I feel like EJ edicts are just too random. But meh, I'm no math geek, maybe I'll try it out and compare results.

[Corbusier]

Source: GarrettJaxx Things like this make me highly suspect. I get 30 rage in less than a second, and I am always well above 2755 AP by the time a boss is at 20%, what with Rampage and Battleshout and countless other raid buffs. So this is telling me sort of to never Execute? I mean - a full rage bar, sure, but then just spam Bloodthirst? I dunno, sometimes I feel like EJ edicts are just too random. But meh, I'm no math geek, maybe I'll try it out and compare results.

Little known fact: BT has a 6 second CD. Makes it tough to spam. What else are you doing for those 3 open GCDs?

[GarrettJaxx]

Source: Corbusier Little known fact: BT has a 6 second CD. Makes it tough to spam. What else are you doing for those 3 open GCDs?

If I'm not refreshing Demo Shout (my tanks always forget to keep it up so I off use a GCD on it) I'll either refresh Rampage or even pop a Heroic Strike if I'm at 50% rage or better. If I'm in Execute range, after refreshing shouts/Rampage I'll build up a bit of rage and let one fly.

The question I am trying to figure out is if I should be ignoring Execute, and using a normal rotation, even a Whirlwind, to maintain DPS and hit a BT even below 20%. Sounds like EJ is saying yes.

[Mediumwell]

The question I am trying to figure out is if I should be ignoring Execute, and using a normal rotation, even a Whirlwind, to maintain DPS and hit a BT even below 20%. Sounds like EJ is saying yes.

What EJ is saying is that if your AP meets whats posted above, then keeping BT on cooldown during your execute spam will yield more dps per 30 rage. It goes on to say that this becomes untrue if you are producing 55+ rage per gcd. I would say...here DPS Warrior Compendium - Page 22 - Elitist Jerks read it for yourself.

[Corbusier]

Source: GarrettJaxx If I'm not refreshing Demo Shout (my tanks always forget to keep it up so I off use a GCD on it) I'll either refresh Rampage or even pop a Heroic Strike if I'm at 50% rage or better. If I'm in Execute range, after refreshing shouts/Rampage I'll build up a bit of rage and let one fly. The question I am trying to figure out is if I should be ignoring Execute, and using a normal rotation, even a Whirlwind, to maintain DPS and hit a BT even below 20%. Sounds like EJ is saying yes.

No, you shouldn't be ignoring execute; in fact you should only be spamming execute and hit BT if it lights up. Those two attacks will give you the highest possible DPS when you have heroism/reck/drums/etc. WW and HS should not be used in this phase.

[GarrettJaxx]

Thanks as always Corb, you slutty little shammy Draenei.

[Corbusier]

I get around, what can I say.

[Dragaan]

Great guide corb. I have couple lil things to say that you may or may not want to add into your guide. They are very small and may seem unimportant/obvious to a lot of us, but it may help some.

1) Lots of warriors think that wearing anything but plate is stupid.... That is just ignorant, since a lot of the best melee gear in the game is leather. If you are taking physical dmg as a fury warrior, something is wrong with your tank (except in rare situations).

2) Armor pen and executioner. ArP does scale with itself and will get more valuable as you get more of it. That doesnt mean that executioner ISN'T a good idea for your mainhand because you have little or no static ArP from your gear. I am CONSTANTLY hearing warriors (of all tiers of raiding) say that mongoose is better for them because they have little or no ArP from their gear. (these are usually the warriors that I blow away in DPS when I'm in prot spec, lol)

3) Just a tip: For warriors who are new to raiding or just to raiding as dps, practice your rotation. The best way (that i know of) to do this is to fight the immortals in the Blasted Lands. They never die and do minimal damage to a plate-wearing class. You also hit them pretty hard so rage gen is very decent.

Good work on your guide.

[Dragaan]

Oh, and I have a question for you as well... I am a tank in raids but I also work very hard on my fury set and I dps a lot. I do a lot of research and use tools like spreadsheets and maxdps a lot, but there's one thing about fury-gearing that I'm confused on.

I've heard others say this before, and I think it is mentioned in your guide that after a certain point crit becomes more valuable than ap. The guide didn't go into any more detail than that. One number I've heard thrown around is 2200. That after you reach 2200 unbuffed ap, you should push crit AHEAD of ap (even if you are at 30%+ already). I have not been able to find much information backing that up, and according to maxdps and the spreadsheets I've used, ap is ALWAYS better than crit when you're at 30%+ crit unbuffed...

Right now I am at about 2220 ap, 31.50% crit, 160 hit, 1078 ArP, 11 expertise, and 21haste. All unbuffed.

Is there a reason that I should start focusing more on crit (over ap)? Is this total BS? Any help would be appreciated.

Thanks.

[GarrettJaxx]

I know you asked Corb, but here's my $.02: At those stats, I'd say if anything work on your crit so more of your offhand is hitting and proccing crits. Sure you can use more crit at this point, and you don't need to worry as much about AP, indeed. But with the gear to even get to those stats you must be in BT, and I'd warrant higher hit than 160 at that point.

[Dragaan]

Source: GarrettJaxx ...and you don't need to worry as much about AP, indeed...

Well, what I'm asking is why? Why would crit be more beneficial than AP? And exactly when would it be wise to stop focusing on AP if it were true? I've never heard of an "AP soft-cap" and the only reason I can think for wanting more offhand crits is for rage gen (since 1 white crit generates more rage than two white hits). Theoretically, my flurry should have near-100% uptime with my current crit (esp if I have a druid in my group). I just don't know where the evidence supporting this "AP soft-cap" (my own term, heh) is truly coming from.

Thanks for the response. Would like to hear more on this issue.

EDIT: Btw, you can see my gear currently on the armory. I'm still prot, but I logged in DPS gear. (don't laugh at the intellect on my boots tho. it makes me smarter than the rest of you :P )

[Dragaan]

:/

[loquatious]

I think the logic of Crit > AP is when you calculate the value of the stats in item costs at some point the value of a crit exceeds the value of just improving the base damage.

For example at 10,000 ap increasing AP by 10 is a negligable change, but the value of doing 1.5 times damage is much better.

So at some point Crit is better than AP but at what point is the question

[Dragaan]

I get what you're saying. But yea, I'd sure like to know when. I'm not going to do the math myself because I'm lazy . From now on, I will be using crit/strength gems in both yellow AND red sockets instead of just using 10str in the reds. And also gemming crit/strength in sockets when I am ignoring the bonus. That was my main issue - when to stop using 10strength as my priority gem and start using crit/strength. We'll see what happens..