How am I doing so far.

Jeffro · #1 11-04-2009, 03:57 PM

Hi there all, I would like to get some advice on my character. At the moment I am just trying to get tank epics so I can finally raid. I would like to know if my talents are alright, if my gear is going the right way and what I should be focusing on in this point of time

Here is my armory link: HERE

I hope someone can help me I would be happy

Greetz,
Jeffro

Aggathon · #2 11-04-2009, 07:55 PM

Gemming seems kind of sporratic. If you're just going to be tanking heroic 5 mans and stuff then gemming for threat might not be a bad thing, however if you're looking to start tanking raids and such, I would highly recommend starting to gem stam since your gear is still fairly new. Main focus at the moment should be getting a new weapon I think. Other than that general stuff I don't know nearly as much about paladins as some other people around here so I'll leave that to them.

Jeffro · #3 11-04-2009, 10:31 PM

Yeah, I've been trying to get a new weapon. I'm running UP and ToC hc daily. but they never drop Q_Q

For gemming, I've been using the gemming/enchant guide on maintankadin and I've been gemming according to the slot colors and bonusses.

**Niian** · #4 11-05-2009, 12:22 AM

Spec
I'd recommend this spec
Talent Calculator - World of Warcraft

Gear
A lot of your blues will be replaced once you can start running heroics and getting emblems. You've got a few items desperately in need of replacing, however heroics shouldn't be too difficult with your current gear.
I'd aim to replace your weapon as soon as you can. You can buy T9 shoulders for 30 emblems of triumph from the vendor, not too hard to get however it's unlikely you'll be chosen to tank for totc/VoA with that gear.
Make sure everything is enchanted. While your bracers and weapon aren't the greatest it still shows that you are willing to go that extra step if you enchant them. Chuck on a weapon chain on the sword, stam on the bracers.
Replace your Libram ASAP!

Gemming
As long as it keeps you above the defense minimum, I'd advise gemming stamina for pants, boots and both rings.
Aim to get socket bonuses only if it is +9 stam or higher. If you need to use a red gem use Agi+Sta. Yellow is Def+Sta.

Get your mining and blacksmithing up. You are missing out on a fairly large chunk of health from them. It may cost a bit but seeing as you need to level mining as well, it shouldn't be too difficult to level blacksmithing along the way.

All in all, start working on getting some Emblems and you will find your gear improving pretty fast!

Jeffro · #5 11-05-2009, 12:38 AM

I am already running heroics if you would have noticed some of the gear I have that require emblem farming. I did all hc's except for ok.

I still have my doubts about that build. Why only 1 point in spiritual attunement? On some hc's I still have trouble getting oom. And why waste 3 points into crusade as I don't require as much dps as I have no trouble holding aggro on people.

I am trying to level my professions but the mining spots are always gone at the time I try to level them and I don't get much gold to level in blacksmithing.

The other problem is I only have one oppertunity to get emblems of triumph and thats doing daily heroics. (In our server they won't take people to naxx/ulduar without being full epic or having achievement Q_Q )

I also want a new libram but they cost alot of triumph badges with gets me back in the loop of not having those. So what can I further do to improve? I'll get the enchants either way (if I get some gold again)

**jere** · #6 11-05-2009, 06:09 AM

Source: Jeffro
I still have my doubts about that build. Why only 1 point in spiritual attunement? On some hc's I still have trouble getting oom.

Honestly, if you are going oom in heroics, that relates to making mistakes in how/when you pull. Divine Plea + BoSanc + 1/2 SA is more than enough to keep you going as long as you play smartly. Pull as many mobs as you can handle gear/healer wise. Start dragging the last 1 or 2 mobs to the next group. Don't let Divine Plea fall off. Learn to throttle Consecration better. You really only need 1/2 SA, but it does require that you be a bit more attentive to your Divine Plea cooldown and current state.

Source: Jeffro
And why waste 3 points into crusade as I don't require as much dps as I have no trouble holding aggro on people.

Then why waste them in Conviction? You have 5/5 conviction and 17 total points in ret. Crusade is every bit more dps/threat than conviction. Conviction provides 0 benefit over Crusade. If you think you don't need the threat/dps (you should always want the DPS, that is important whether you need the TPS or not), then why put points in conviction to start with? I would highly recommend taking 2 points out of conviction and moving them to crusade, or if you really don't need the threat, put them somewhere else.

Source: Jeffro
The other problem is I only have one oppertunity to get emblems of triumph and thats doing daily heroics. (In our server they won't take people to naxx/ulduar without being full epic or having achievement Q_Q )

That's bad for Naxx (blues are totally fine there) but good for Ulduar (you should be totally epiced for Ulduar).

Source: Jeffro
I also want a new libram but they cost alot of triumph badges with gets me back in the loop of not having those. So what can I further do to improve? I'll get the enchants either way (if I get some gold again)

Buy the Libram of Sacred Shield with Conquest Badges instead. It is a decent threat/survivability combo. It's not as good as the triumph badge one for threat, but it is a very solid libram, and, if you are running heroics, it is easy to get.

EDIT: Those weren't meant to be mean responses. I am just in a hurry this morning. The general thing to remember is if your threat is awesome but your are going oom, then you are being too conservative. You have to find that sweet spot where you are taking enough damage and just barely keeping threat. That will help with your mana.

Jeffro · #7 11-05-2009, 10:19 AM

Ok no problem

I know how it is when you're tired in the morning and see someone "whine" about some stuff :P

The other problem is that most pugs want me to hurry, so they don't let me wait that 7 second cooldown I could have left. I took the talent tree from a endgame player. Are you also agreeing as too that tree is alot better then what I have now?

What do you mean by throttling Consecration? (The throttling part, I don't understand what that word means in this context)

They way I mostly pull atm is waiting for avengers shield cool down and then I start with Hammer of the Righteous and then Consecration, and get into the 969 rotation with that.

As for the rest of my gear and gems. Are my gems really that bad? And which ones are bad?

As for Naxx, I'm gonna try set one up with my friend warlock as leader so I have a almost certain spot. I also didn't mean ulduar as I know thats a step higher but I ment OS

The other problem is keeping aggro on 5+ mobs, mostly I still manage to taunt them quickly but there are some situations where I wished I was faster. So any tips on that?

Also if possible I would like some tips on getting ret pvp gear for my offspec as I really want to do Wintergrasp sometime.

Anyway thank you all for your time and I hope someone can answer these questions too

Greetz Jeffro

**jere** · #8 11-05-2009, 04:03 PM

Nah, I didn't think you were whining. I just had to go to a training class this morning, so I was in a rush.

What throttling consecration means is not using unless you need it (I.E. hold back some and don't go all out with it). The 96969 is definitely the most superior threat rotation which keeps 100% Holy Shield and Judgement uptimes, but it is more designed for single target than AoE.

So in heroics, what I usually do is pull with HoR+AS (sometimes on different targets), HotR the enemies once they get in range, and then throw a single consecration. From that point on, I tab target through the mobs, popping judgement, ShoR, and HotR on the ones I have least threat on. If I find DPS catching on my threat, I toss another consecration. However, I avoid casting it everytime because it is one of your larger mana hogs. You said your threat was wonderful already, so you should be able to tone down on the Consecration usage.

Once you are down to two targets, start moving to the next group and pull it as soon as you are down to one mob. This ensures that you will be able to keep Divine Plea up (and thus your mana). If you are taking very little damage, use HoR to pull another group. That way, BoSanc will help fill your mana up.

I tank heroics in iLvL 245 gear with only 1/2 SA without mana problems, so it is definitely doable, you just need to figure out the tricks to keep your mana coming in.

As far as gems go, the only problematic ones I saw were your legs, feet, and ring (especially the feet). You shouldn't be matching sockets for +4 defense rating bonuses in most cases (unless you really need the defense, which you currently don't). The feet especially because if you are going to hybrid a gem, go with a stam hybrid, not a strength one. However, your gems aren't a deal breaker, just something you could edge out more if you want to spend the money/badges.

EDIT: The talent tree he posted earlier is indeed better than they one you have currently (with the caviat that the divinity/divine guardian trade isn't a better/worse thing, just flavor in choice). The only loss you get from taking points out of conviction and putting them in crusade is the gold you spend respec'ing. 2% damage >>> 2% crit. Crusade is on the order of 50% better than Conviction. HOWEVER, the upgrade isn't necessarily a huge upgrade. You might not even notice it (especially if you are already good on threat).

I probably wouldn't recommend respec'ing just to get those two points, but if you ever get to feeling froggy and end up respecing, Crusade is definitely a better place to spend those points. This is a thread over at maintankadin that can show you the results of various specs and their threat output:
Maintankadin • View topic - Theck's MATLAB TPS analysis (A Jonesy derivative work)

Check out the OP for a list of other topics he covers and their links.

Jeffro · #9 11-05-2009, 04:27 PM

Yeah the ring, leggs and feet were my first epics out of toc normal so I was desperate for def rating at that time. I should indeed regem those (When I have some money again, I should hurry up lvling mining ;o) ty for your way of doing heroics. I didn't respec alot yet but I think I could soon. I also want a pvp ret build so I have to work on that too soon

For now you're the best answer

and this was particulary helpfull.

Last question though. Is it worth it trading conquest emblems for valor ones to get 213 epics?

**jere** · #10 11-05-2009, 04:33 PM

If you need a particular piece not covered in the conquest vendor, I don't see why not. Just make sure you get your biggest/best upgrades first.

**Niian** · #11 11-05-2009, 04:39 PM

The other problem is that most pugs want me to hurry, so they don't let me wait that 7 second cooldown I could have left. I took the talent tree from a endgame player. Are you also agreeing as too that tree is alot better then what I have now?

Then that is an issue with the group you're in, not a fault of yours.

When push comes to shove it's you who is there to do the tanking, and only you can say when you are ready to start pulling the next mobs. Some times you can get away without having DP up, if you know you won't oom and/or theres a short CD left on it, however if it looks like you will oom and won't be able to plea any time soon there's the risk of the DPS out threating you and agroing.

Also spec's vary depending on the player. There is no one set awesomesauce spec for tanking, I use mine for tanking 10/25 heroic Totc and it works fine.

Jeffro · #12 11-06-2009, 02:52 PM

Hmm I finally got to do VoA 10 today and got 1 boss down as OT. But our dps sucked then ppl leaved and now I'm saved to VoA >_>

I got the Libram, now its hoping for a damn sword to drop in up or toc hc if they EVER drop. Q_Q