[Fryswithat]

Does +spell dmg effect seal of righteousness?

[jere]

Source: Fryswithat Does +spell dmg effect seal of righteousness?

Yes.

Per hit it increases your damage by roughly 0.092*spell_dmg*weapon_speed

The dps increase is simply 0.092*spell_dmg

So it has a 9.2% spell dmg coefficient for dps, roughly.

[Fryswithat]

K I'm new and have never tanked anything but 5-mans Where tanking a group of 3-5 mobs is fine with a decent healer, and I usually top dmg charts bcuz of this. I also don't lose agro even Vs single targets like bosses. So I was wondering why Ignore the 1st 2 tiers of the holy tree? +str =block/atk power, And With Improved SoR talent and JoC on the mob gives me about +30-40% more dmg per hit (for u guys more bcuz at lvl 67 i dont have much +spell dmg tanking gear).

Fryz 67pally
azgalor

[jere]

Source: Fryswithat K I'm new and have never tanked anything but 5-mans Where tanking a group of 3-5 mobs is fine with a decent healer, and I usually top dmg charts bcuz of this. I also don't lose agro even Vs single targets like bosses. So I was wondering why Ignore the 1st 2 tiers of the holy tree? +str =block/atk power, And With Improved SoR and JoC gives me about +30-40% more dmg per hit (for u guys more bcuz at lvl 67 i dont have much +spell dmg tanking gear). Fryz 67pally azgalor

Well, spec'ing 5/5 Divine Strength nets you around 1 Block Value and what 30-40 AP in tank gear for a paladin? Not to mention, the substantial portion of our DPS/TPS comes from holy based attacks and less from melee. That's not really a good way to spend 5 points on. Divine Intellect will net you a few hundred more mana probably at first (more as you get paladin type tank gear), but is pretty paltry and almost never needed.

Improved SoR is indeed a nice talent for threat. You spend 10 points in holy to get it though, so where do you propose taking those points from? If you take them out of deflection, you reduce your avoidance by 5% as well as make your seals/judgements more expensive again. If you take them out of prot, then you lose quite a bit of the top tier prot talents, a lot of which are very good.

It's not that improved SoR is a bad talent, it is just that most don't think it is worth what you lose to get it.

[Fryswithat]

Another question why is it that 70prot pallys dont have reckoning? Even when your only fighting 1 target lets say boss' atk speed is 3sec over 3min fight.
180sec/3sec = 60/10~ = 6~ 6 * 4 = 24 atks
180sec/1.6 = 112.5atks + the 24 hits u get from reckoning
(the average tank weapon speed^)
Thats about a 20% improvement. take 2 points from anticipation and 3 from precision -3% melee DPS and some defense u can get else where for
+20% dmg(from melee akts)

[Fryswithat]

And on my post about divine str and improved SoR i wasn't thinking about how right now my tanking gear (mostly war. gear) will get replaced with pally tanking gear with give +spell dmg instead of str. Still i tihnk i might try getting SoR by putting into divine int. =/

[jere]

Source: Fryswithat Another question why is it that 70prot pallys dont have reckoning? Even when your only fighting 1 target lets say boss' atk speed is 3sec over 3min fight. 180sec/3sec = 60/10~ = 6~ 6 * 4 = 24 atks 180sec/1.6 = 112.5atks + the 24 hits u get from reckoning (the average tank weapon speed^) Thats about a 20% improvement. take 2 points from anticipation and 3 from precision -3% melee DPS and some defense u can get else where for +20% dmg(from melee akts)

While the boss would get 60 attacks in your example, about half of those would be dodged/parried/missed (roughly), so you would be getting around 12-15 extra attacks. The better your gear gets, the less extra attacks you get on average. Since higher end game tends to lend itself to more avoidance, you will find that reckoning won't proc as often as it used to.

Now with that said, Reckoning is a great talent for:

1. Levelling
2. Solo'ing caster mobs
3. AoE farming/tanking

and if I could find 5 more points that were worse than it, I would take it in a heart beat. The problem is there are simply not enough points to get reckoning and get all the stuff you need/want for end game tanking.

EDIT:

Source: Fryswithat And on my post about divine str and improved SoR i wasn't thinking about how right now my tanking gear (mostly war. gear) will get replaced with pally tanking gear with give +spell dmg instead of str. Still i tihnk i might try getting SoR by putting into divine int. =/

How much STR do you have in your tanking gear now?

I would suggest linking a build you are interested in, that might help in discussing why you would take and not take certain talents. WowHead has a good talent calculator you can play with and post a link for us with (Just remember to hit the "link this build" option before grabbing the URL)

[Fryswithat]

Source: jere How much STR do you have in your tanking gear now? I would suggest linking a build you are interested in, that might help in discussing why you would take and not take certain talents. WowHead has a good talent calculator you can play with and post a link for us with (Just remember to hit the "link this build" option before grabbing the URL)

My char's name is Fryz hes a 67pally on azgalor this is the build i was going up until i found this forum.
MyBuild
and my str. is 341 atm

If you look me up in the armory my tanking shield is actualy Shield of the Void
But Petrified Lichen Guard Has got 2 b the best AoE shield ever

[jere]

Source: Fryswithat My char's name is Fryz hes a 67pally on azgalor this is the build i was going up until i found this forum. MyBuild and my str. is 341 atm If you look me up in the armory my tanking shield is actualy Shield of the Void But Petrified Lichen Guard Has got 2 b the best AoE shield ever

So Divine Strength would have netted you 1 Block Value (I believe it rounds down..if not then 2) and then 68 AP (about 4 TPS) for using 5 points.

In terms of the build you were shooting for, the things that would stick out:

3/5 Anticipation and 4/5 Deflection -- These are definitely doable, but I will warn you that they may trap you into certain gear setups sometimes as you hover around the 102.4% mark. Also, if you get to tank any resist fights, not having 5/5 anticipation is a real pain sometimes as you struggle to get uncrittable while wearing resist gear (again doable). Taking 2 points out of Anticipation reduces your avoidance + block by 1.28% and the one point out of deflection reduces your avoidance reduces it by 1% for a total of 2.28% you have to make up on your own through gear, etc.

0/5 Ardent Defender -- I realize the chance for this to be leapfrogged is scary to some, but honestly, it is a really good talent. You will be hard pressed to find any endgame paladin tanks without it. It is EXCELLENT for AoE tanking and tanking fast hitting dual wielders. It is an extra safety net for all others that might save you. Just something to think about

0/3 precision -- With the move of taunt to melee hit, this talent gets very much better for fights that require taunts (very few, but definitely good for trash too) as well as the benefit to both your melee and spell dmg abilities.

All in all, it looks like you are centering around a threat build more than a mitigation build. This should be fine in general (though you may want to move some points around possibly), but you will most likely find that as you get higher into the endgame, you will need more mitigation than the build you are looking at provides.

[Fryswithat]

Source: jere 0/5 Ardent Defender -- I realize the chance for this to be leapfrogged is scary to some, but honestly, it is a really good talent. You will be hard pressed to find any endgame paladin tanks without it. It is EXCELLENT for AoE tanking and tanking fast hitting dual wielders. It is an extra safety net for all others that might save you. Just something to think about

I love Ardent Defender but .... unless your healer is asleep or goes oom u never get 2 35% hp and if either of those happens ur usualy dead anywayz the only time i ever hit 35% is AoE farming which its great for OR fighting something that hits for 3-4k in which case it can be leap frogged quite easily.

And thnx this was xactly the kinda help i was looking 4

Edit:

Source: jere So Divine Strength would have netted you 1 Block Value (I believe it rounds down..if not then 2) and then 68 AP (about 4 TPS) for using 5 points.

2 B fair it didnt just get me 4 TPS but mostly the 15% dmg bonus in improved SoR

And taunt's hit% is based on melee hit?

[jere]

Source: Fryswithat I love Ardent Defender but .... unless your healer is asleep or goes oom u never get 2 35% hp and if either of those happens ur usualy dead anywayz the only time i ever hit 35% is AoE farming which its great for OR fighting something that hits for 3-4k in which case it can be leap frogged quite easily.

You would think this, but when you get to certain encounters, you will find yourself going under 35% often enough and your healers are no where near asleep. AD has saved my butt on Mag, HK, and Gruul often. Prince phase 2 is another place I have seen it kick in. I have seen it save me on the Lynx boss in ZA.

The long and short of it is things can and do happen that are not ideal. Sometimes, they are merely just a bad set of abilities at once or bad timing. Other times, maybe your healers were asleep for a second. AD saves raid wipes occasionally, and that is a good reason to take it.

I have been tracking it with a couple of addons for the last month or so, what I have found on fights where it kicks in, it mitigates 10-15% of the damage for that fight typically. Last week, AD kicked in 7 times on Gruul himself. Will it always save your life? Nope, but it will do so occasionally.

Rest assured, despite what some would like to tell you, you will drop below 35% health while your healers are wide awake. It won't happen all the time, but it will happen.

Source: Fryswithat And taunt's hit% is based on melee hit?

As of patch 2.3, all taunts were moved to melee hit (warrior, bear, and paladin).

[ToyKalibur]

My question is this... When is too much, too much? Exp. Too much defense or say dodge? Is there some kind of hidden level when too much is not helping?

Thanks

[Grabmill]

Did anyone of you ever think about or try a spec where you drop Avenger's Shield in favor of Sanctity Aura for a ridiculous gain in threat? Pre 2.3 it was even more viable, because you could easily leave out some points in Combat Expertise, so you could take Improved Sanctity Aura as well. The build would look like this or so...

[ToyKalibur]

I'm not to sure about that setup myself. I know when i had a few things out of place where i had Vengeance and Reckoning, just starting out i was quickly brought to those attention that put me on the right path to my current setup, (0/46/15) and i found it alot easier to not only gain threat, but hold multi-targets as well. But the way things change in the game, i wouldn't be surprised that something like that would end up being a spec of choice.

Then again, i don't want to steer away from my avoidance rating either.

[Ciderhelm]

How was this not stuck... tell me about these things!

[Kazeyonoma]

or me!

[ToyKalibur]

Source: ToyKalibur My question is this... When is too much, too much? Exp. Too much defense or say dodge? Is there some kind of hidden level when too much is not helping? Thanks

Wow this thread hasn't died has it? ;(

[redlenses]

A better version of the "Taunt" Macro that will cast BoP if RD is down and won't BoP yourself (if the person you are bopping drops aggro as you are casting) is:

#showtooltip
/castsequence [target=target,raid] reset=15 Righteous Defense, Blessing of Protection;
[target=targettarget,raid] reset=15 Righteous Defense, Blessing of Protection

or

#showtooltip
/castsequence [target=mouseover,raid] reset=15 Righteous Defense, Blessing of Protection;
[target=target,raid] reset=15 Righteous Defense, Blessing of Protection;
[target=targettarget,raid] reset=15 Righteous Defense, Blessing of Protection

[Grizzlebek]

Source: Caoin Updated to reflect new Heroic Badge items in gear list.

Um, where is this? I keep looking and I don't see any badge loot...

[Radhja]

Excellent read. As a Warrior tank, I gained alot of insight to the mechanics of paladin tanking.

I'd still rather MT and let the paly OT. :P