[Llokii]

My guild has recently begun running Karazhan, but I have some difficulty understanding when and how to swap people in an out. We have so far generally set a group at the beginning of the week, and tried to stick to that group all week. I know it's not the way to go, but I have a hard time telling someone who started the instance that they cannot come for a particular boss because we need a different group make-up. I'm looking for some advice on how to handle that.

Our typical grouping is as follows:

1x Prot Tank - MT
1x Prot Tank/Feral/Prot Paly - OT
2x Holy Priest
1x Resto Druid
1x Rogue
1x Hunter
1x Lock
1x Mage
1x Random DPS (usually another Lock or Rogue)

I know, for instance, that Curator we don't need 2 tanks, so I have to swap in another DPS for that spot, but we should have the OT to get to Curator. At what point would you swap the tank out? Just before the boss pull? This is what I need some help understanding.

Thanks in advance =)

[Derrick]

imo, any benefits from swapping out the OT for another DPS do not make up for negatives: more waiting around, harder to manage, only learning to do each fight a specific way.

a 10-man raid is benefited greatly by having an OT speced as a good switch hitter. feral druids are excellent at this, but prot warriors with decent dps gear are fine. (I'm a big fan of hybrid fury/prot builds too.) And a prot pally can even contribute in many ways besides pure tanking, e.g. off-healing on curator, picking up skellies on nightbane, throwing judgments/tanking adds on aran, etc. i would try to use this mindset rather than min-maxing your raid makeup if you would rather not deal with the headaches of kicking people from the group that are less than absolutely perfect for the encounter.

[Andenthal]

I understand wanting to have the absolute perfect group make-up when you are first learning a very hard boss, or a boss that is just kicking your arse. But 99% of the time, you should try with what you have. Do you call the raid off if your hunter can not make the raid? I'm guessing not, you likely find a way around it.

And similar to what Derrick said, try to have 1 solid group where a couple people can perform multiple roles. Feral Druids, Fury Warriors, and Ret Pallies can all make good off tanks when you need them, and also make for great DPS when not needed - no group swapping required. Try to only have 1 Protection spec Warrior or Paladin in the group. You really do not need 2 "true" tanks or Karazhan. A Feral/Fury/Ret with good tanking gear will work just fine.

[Unger]

I can understand wanting the optimal group as well..... but it isnt really practical. We often bring a fury warrior as the OT (he puts on tanking gear) and we watch him more closely (the "Ice Tomb" mobs after Maiden come to mind here). You can also use a Druid in cat form when one tank is required and switch to Bear form when you need the OT.

We have been particularly lucky because we have a few tanks (including myself) that have alts that are attuned for Kara. My alt is a holy priest that can be used for Shade of Aran and our OT (prot warrior) has a 70 mage that can be used. We would park the alts in group 3 and log them in the instance. When we would get to an event that didnt require the 2nd tank, we would switch them out and run with the alt. The trouble you have with coordination of a different toon is in having to deal with the removal of one player in exchange for the other. When the toon changes but the player stays the same, there is almost no additional coordination necessary.

If you have access to these types of players, it can make the process that much simpler.

Good Luck!