[Satorri]

For my Frost specs I tend not to get into Unholy deeply at all. I often use glyph of HB and methods to frequently re-apply diseases so Epidemic isn't vital. What's more I spend my free points in SoB to squeeze out FS's frequently as it is so delectable an RP spend, particularly with Killing Machine proc'ing.

It's a fine talent, and one I think is easily overlooked as it doesn't apply a direct "gain +X% damage" kind of talent, but I often find it easier to go without only in Frost.

[Sagan]

my armory:
The World of Warcraft Armory

I'm currently using obliterate, frost strike, howling blast glyphs.

which glyph has more threat pop frost strike or rune strike?

[Nephelai]

Source: Lilithium I suppose this a bit of ignorance on my behalf, but I noticed the two specs you posted for frost don't take epidemic, Satorri. Any reason for/against it?

Epidemic is great for builds that need a 12 rune rotation. Blood 12 rune rotations allowing 6 HS in 20 seconds are a prime example. While the math is great for 12 rune rotations in any spec, and rotations in increments of 6 should be cleaner in frost because the blood/death runes can come up with more consistent timing, I none the less have found that 12 rune frost rotations don't seem to fill the GCD's as well and provide less versatility then the more chaotic rng rotation that one uses without Epidemic, and the threat really didn't seem to be noticeably better with a 12 rune rotation.

As it is what I do is less of what one would call a standard rotation and more a matter of prioritization.

I start each "rotation" with IT and PS. After that it varies from rotation to rotation but follows strict prioritization rules. IF blood runes are coming up blood they get burned with BS. If blood runes are coming up as a pair of death runes, or a FU are coming up, then OB is next. This means alot of 2 rune moves which means there will be gaps in the gcd's.. when these come up FS fills the gaps, unless a free HB has procced, then HB fills the gap. When diseases are close to dropping I know where I am in my rune cd's and so I know which FU will be needed to reapply in a timely manner. RS is macro'd to everything.

Now everything I just typed dosen't look as clean as say

IT, PS, BS, BS, OB, RP Dump, OB, OB, OB, RP Dump (12 rune Frost Rotation)

or

IT, PS, HS, HS, DS, DC, HoW, DS, HS, HS, HS, HS, DC (12 rune Blood rotation).

It dosen't look as clean as these and without epidemic you can't take advantage of your full disease rotation and your death runes and still use a rotation that can be spelled out in such a simple strait forward manner.

None the less for a frost tank just prioritizing your rune/rp use, and using each gcd at the highest priority, works extremely well.

[PatrikL]

Source: Satorri Frost Popular Specs: (2H) Talent Calculator - World of Warcraft (2H) Talent Calculator - World of Warcraft (DW) Talent Calculator - World of Warcraft (DW) Talent Calculator - World of Warcraft

The second 2H spec here is a blood spec from what I can see when clicking on it.

[Satorri]

I've stopped messing with the specs because WoWhead links seem to keep breaking or misrepresenting. I'll update the links above with a different talent calculator when I get a chance.

[Lilithium]

The HB glyph definitely makes sense for an epidemic-less spec. I suppose I've just got that talent stuck in my head from days of blood tanking. Still waiting on a few upgrades to my gear before going to DW frost tanking. Trying (in vain perhaps) to get two Quels. Call it compulsion, but all my DW weapons have been symetrical.

Realistically I'd love to get myself into a specialize tanking position with the use of things like acclimation primarily to make myself invaluable for tanking spell dmg bosses.

And on that note, does the aoe tick produced by Steelbreaker proc acclimation? And if so, would this not also aid in the fusion punches, assuming both are nature?

Looking at something like this:
Talent Calculator - World of Warcraft

[Aunholydeath]

Source: Lilithium The HB glyph definitely makes sense for an epidemic-less spec. I suppose I've just got that talent stuck in my head from days of blood tanking. Still waiting on a few upgrades to my gear before going to DW frost tanking. Trying (in vain perhaps) to get two Quels. Call it compulsion, but all my DW weapons have been symetrical. Realistically I'd love to get myself into a specialize tanking position with the use of things like acclimation primarily to make myself invaluable for tanking spell dmg bosses. And on that note, does the aoe tick produced by Steelbreaker proc acclimation? And if so, would this not also aid in the fusion punches, assuming both are nature?

It works with any kind of spell damage u take including aoe boss damage. my dw frost build that i use for toc/togc is slightly different then yours but is just as effective and your getting more proc chances of KM
Talent Calculator - World of Warcraft

[Pwnanapuddin]

Mmmmm sato, I got my 25 onyx 2hsword last night! If only they had given it a gem slot like other 245 2-handers.

[Frenzy165]

My Blood Spec

It works quite well for me, although im thinking of dropping morbidity. I picked it up back in uld for our 10 man to ake certain things (notably mimiron p3) easier and just havent bothered. Ill probably switch those points out into epidemic.

I also had considered dropping a glyph for rune strike. But the only viable candidate (imo) is disease.. which provides me extra heart strikes.. so i'm not 100% sure the threat gain will be significant.

[Vanthus]

Source: Frenzy165 My Blood Spec It works quite well for me, although im thinking of dropping morbidity. I picked it up back in uld for our 10 man to ake certain things (notably mimiron p3) easier and just havent bothered. Ill probably switch those points out into epidemic. I also had considered dropping a glyph for rune strike. But the only viable candidate (imo) is disease.. which provides me extra heart strikes.. so i'm not 100% sure the threat gain will be significant.

I can't see how the disease glyph is helping you without taking epidemic. Even then I found that using the disease glyph was a loss of DPS for me. Using the IT-PS-HS-HS-DS-Dump-DS-HS-HS-HS-HS still was my highest DPS output.

[Satorri]

Pwna, don't you taunt me! I have been waiting on that sword forEVER (/cry, this week it didn't drop yet again).

They regulate stamina on gear so that it is on pretty much equal footing from every piece, and as sockets actually cost itemization points, the 245 socket weapons (Justicebringer comes to mind) have less stamina when they have a blue socket. Justicebringer with an epic stam gem actually will have only 6 more stamina than the 245 Obsidian Edge. With socket bonus the Justicebringer does get a little more Str too, and more crit. The ArP doesn't suck for a Blood tank.

Personally I'm after the sword to not drop the Expertise legacy of my weapons, AND to get crit with it, I'm giddy. Plus, as a bonus, the sword looks hot.

Side note, I'm curious why I've never seen the DK helms drop, DPS or Tank. I want some retconned goodness!

[Nephelai]

Source: Satorri Pwna, don't you taunt me! I have been waiting on that sword forEVER (/cry, this week it didn't drop yet again). They regulate stamina on gear so that it is on pretty much equal footing from every piece, and as sockets actually cost itemization points, the 245 socket weapons (Justicebringer comes to mind) have less stamina when they have a blue socket. Justicebringer with an epic stam gem actually will have only 6 more stamina than the 245 Obsidian Edge. With socket bonus the Justicebringer does get a little more Str too, and more crit. The ArP doesn't suck for a Blood tank. Personally I'm after the sword to not drop the Expertise legacy of my weapons, AND to get crit with it, I'm giddy. Plus, as a bonus, the sword looks hot. Side note, I'm curious why I've never seen the DK helms drop, DPS or Tank. I want some retconned goodness!

I personally am having a love affair with my new 25 Ony Reinforced Thunderstrike, but then I am just a polearm kinda guy.

[Boeten]

Mmmm, they do regulate the ilvl and item budget, but they certainly don't regulate Stamina. Most (if not all?) hard-mode 2H weapons since Ulduar has 2 sockets, which makes weapon from 10-H to have more stamina (provided you socket with Solid Zircon) than 25-N even though they have same ilvl. What that means is while Zircon-ed Justicebringer only has 6 more Stamina than 245 Obsidian Edge, Zircon-ed Lothar's Edge (10-H) will have 30 more Stamina than Zircon-ed Justicebringer.

Funnily, Zircon-ed Aesir's Edge can have 16 more Stamina than Zircon-ed Justicebringer. Dual Zircon-ed Shiver have 31 more Stamina than Zircon-ed Justicebringer. They're weapons from, like, hardmode 1 tier behind.

So if we're looking for just pure stamina, we should be looking for hard-mode weapons.

The downside with socketing Zircon is that the STR (or Agi for Polearm and some 2H Sword) and other DPS stats will become lower compared to the same-ilvl weapon. If threat is not a problem though, that is a perfectly acceptable gearing choice.

[Pwnanapuddin]

Yeah so far I have the DPS helm, but no tank helm yet at all. What up with that?

I at working with DBB (+51 stam) or my new sword which I have nicknamed "Satorri's Envy"

Last week when we did HTOC, we managed to finished our first guild run with 41 attempts left which ment some speshul lewtz! And of course Mo'Kresh dropped. That axe makes me smile.


**additional info** Our stupid ret pally won it =P

[Satorri]

Boeten, they've said they maintain constant levels of stamina on gear. I shouldn't have made the same extension to weapons.

Weapons will waffle, some of them have more Stam at the expense of other stats, though I care a lot about those other stats, that's part of the reason why I'm not broken up about not having high-end arena weapons available. Though their higher ilvl is pretty hot too.

[Frenzy165]

Source: Vanthus I can't see how the disease glyph is helping you without taking epidemic. Even then I found that using the disease glyph was a loss of DPS for me. Using the IT-PS-HS-HS-DS-Dump-DS-HS-HS-HS-HS still was my highest DPS output.

Unless it's a gimmick fight, I have absolutely no issues with threat, so the DPS issue is moot. I generally just wait until I'm under 6 or so seconds and refresh with pestilence, this means I am usually refreshing somewhere within each rotation. I also don't necessarily use a solid rotation all the time. For instance, when I first engage, I will use IT-PS, but then I'll throw DS because it hits harder than HS so I can spike my threat early. As far as runic dump, most goes into Rune Strike.. I'm lucky if i DC once every rotation.

[Lilithium]

Unless we're really hurting for stam, and find ourselves needing defense, will rune of swordbreaking x 2 beat out the new 1h stoneskin gargoyle rune? Personally I've gone for a bit more of an avoidance direction with my tank, choosing mitigation and avoidance over pure stam. So far it's worked, actually having impales from Gormok just miss completely, and fall off, etc.

[Edgewalker]

Source: Lilithium So far it's worked, actually having impales from Gormok just miss completely, and fall off, etc.

I feel like you are living in a world where Impale misses.

[Lilithium]

Didn't I just say that?

[Kazeyonoma]

Impale cannot miss. I'd like to see a combat log report of this otherwise. As far as I've ever seen, it cannot be dodged/parry/missed