[kebess]

Source: Azuae the reason people are using stam trinkets over avoidance trinkets is because in fights like Gormokk in TOGC 25 you take massive spikes of dmg that you cannot dodge. The only real way to live through it is to have a massive pool of HP.

Yea Gormok is a s** o* b***...

[kebess]

A part form that, do anybody know, if Gormok's Impale attack is blockable ? In ''blockable'' I mean with a shield, like mitigating the incoming Impale according to the bocking value.
Thanks.

[Kojiyama]

Don't believe so.

BTW, Gormok really doesn't require excessive Stamina stacking. A bit, sure, but not extreme. A proper rotation solves a lot of the issues involved, when you can cooldown every single phase. (4/2/2/2/2/2 rotation) I typically take the 3rd and 6th rotation slot and Last Stand the entire first phase and Shield Wall the 2nd phase right before the first Impale.

[Aggathon]

I've typically needed a large HP pool for NRB. We use a 3 tank 2 stack rotation and now that I have ilevel 245 gear it's pretty simple. We usually end up doing 7 rotations total (13 or 14 impales). I just have to shieldwall the last one to stay up. When we were first trying I got gibbed by Dreadscale some too.

[Kamani]

What isn't a dead horse nowadays. =/ The game isn't drastically changing any time soon and hasn't in awhile.

If you are just going to criticize other people who have been tanking for 5 months for asking a question that is old to YOU but hasn't been fully covered to them then wtf is the point of this forum anymore.

[Edgewalker]

Source: Kamani What isn't a dead horse nowadays. =/ The game isn't drastically changing any time soon and hasn't in awhile. If you are just going to criticize other people who have been tanking for 5 months for asking a question that is old to YOU but hasn't been fully covered to them then wtf is the point of this forum anymore.

Too hard to find the other 50 threads on it?
Lonely on your pedestal?

[Kamani]

Source: Edgewalker Too hard to find the other 50 threads on it? Lonely on your pedestal?

You? Pulling out the pedestal pun?
Read any of your posts; with a sense of decency you'd be just as annoyed as everybody else.

Digressing... my understanding of tanking and the intricacy of the numbers certainly didn't come from reading Cider's post. I manipulated everything and started threads talking about it. And I'd be shocked if anybody outside of Satrina or some other mathheads understood tanking as well as I did.

If I had came to tankspot this week instead of way back when, I certainly wouldn't have wasted my time contributing to a community of "nobody cares."

[kebess]

damn, just wanted to know if the Gormok Impale was blockable, not dodging it or parrying it ('cause that is not possible, the impale IS unavoidable) but could one mitigate it (diminish its damage done) by ''blocking'' it with a shield ?
I never meant to start all this commotion !

So do anyone know please ?

Thanks

[Edgewalker]

Source: Kamani Digressing... my understanding of tanking and the intricacy of the numbers certainly didn't come from reading Cider's post. I manipulated everything and started threads talking about it. And I'd be shocked if anybody outside of Satrina or some other mathheads understood tanking as well as I did.

What?
I can promise you, a large majority of high end tanks understand tanking as well as anyone here, however they do not post here.
That has NOTHING to do with the fact that a lot of the threads popping up now are threads that have been beaten to death in easily findable threads all over the site.
Also, I may be kind of a dick, but my advice has always been spot on, either here, or EJ, for the past 5 years. It's what keeps me from getting banned.

[Maelstrom]

There's a search box for a reason (although please don't use the shoutbox ). The whole argument about new people is bunk anyway, this is why we have libraries in real life so we don't have to discover that copper makes a better heat conductor than aluminium every week (for example). EJ goes with this principle with their "Theorycrafting Think Tank" section that has the large compendium threads.

On a happier note though, my new heatsink is awesome.

[kebess]

God damn it... i guess i'll just go ask my question on another site... thanks a lot...

[Edgewalker]

Source: kebess God damn it... i guess i'll just go ask my question on another site... thanks a lot...

No, it is not.
Most of what isn't dodgeable or parryable is also not blockable.

[Badga]

Source: kebess God damn it... i guess i'll just go ask my question on another site... thanks a lot...

relax...

[Jameak]

This whole debate to me sounds like one party is saying "I only gear for anything with the most HP and the least avoidance" and the other saying "I only gear for anything with the best avoidance and HP doesnt matter to me".

I gear for anything with appropriate avoidance and HP relative to my current gear, and expand on this with EH gems.

In reality, we obtain the best gear we can that meets the following critera:

1. Improves on raw EH bonus through HP or armour.
2. Improves on avoidance.

If the new item doesnt meet this critera, or allow you to meet it through another means (ie. swapping out another item to make up the loss, netting an overall gain) then usually we pass on that item and keep what we have got. Theres no point taking two steps back and only one step forward. This usually results in both avoidance and EH going up over time.

I dont think I have seen any extremes that make this debate pointless. If you gear only for health, you will fail. If you gear only for avoidance, you will fail. And your healers will tell you. Happy median is king!

[Aggathon]

Source: Jameak I dont think I have seen any extremes that make this debate pointless. If you gear only for health, you will fail. If you gear only for avoidance, you will fail. And your healers will tell you. Happy median is king!

I still disagree with this. To an extent <edit> I am dumb about druids.

For warrior tanking: we have the smallest natural EHP pool of any of the other classes, but we do have some pretty good cooldowns and other benefits.

There is an extent that you will simply out-gear any content and the natural EHP WILL be enough. I know I'm already to that point in ToGC (although my anub taking set could still use some work, though it is sufficient. 11% last night D= ). But my EHP set for the first 4 bosses makes them a joke now. Algalon is very lulzy now, etc.

My point is for progression raiding that you don't just outgear the content, raw EHP is typically the way to go unless the fight calls for it specifically otherwise (like anub does).

Personally right now I have 3 sets of gear, sometimes I'll switch pieces out inbetween sets to get up other various stats, but for the most part the 3 sets are:

Threat: I put on all my gear that stacks hit, exp, and BV

EHP: All my HP/Armor gear, using that as the only stat that I really focus on, I'll sack EHP for avoidance unless it's like 6 stam but 1%+ avoidance difference.

Unhittable: My anub add tanking set (see: gearing for the fight/content level).

If you want a tank to stay alive on progression fights, in order to get the EHP they need they need to go all in to EHP. After a certain point they're just going to out gear fights, the natural avoidance given from gear as is for warriors is fine. Right now (again anub exception) if a tank is going to die it's going to be b/c of a lack of EHP. Once you have enough to outgear the content it doesn't really matter tbh.

At least that's my philosophy for warriors (and it probably holds true for palidans and maybe DKs, druids to an extent but re: felhoof). It has kept me alive and progressing and at the same or higher levels as the other tanks in my guild.

I tried to balance EHP and Avoidance for a long time, but I kept dying, once I just went all in on EHP, I stopped dying. This is just how the game works at the moment.

The reason I don't consider this an extreme viewpoint (all in on EHP and zero avoidance) is because no tank is going to have zero avoidance, UNLESS they are stunned or some such mechanic on a boss fight, in which case EHP is all that's going to matter anyways.

[Edgewalker]

No, felhoof's argument was correct, but not for the thread.
Avoidance had nothing to do with it.
Armor / Resist have their place (Ring of Binding from Onyxia for instance), but avoidance simply doesn't with current encounter design.
Stacking stamina will make you win.

[Aggathon]

Source: Edgewalker No, felhoof's argument was correct, but not for the thread. Avoidance had nothing to do with it. Armor / Resist have their place (Ring of Binding from Onyxia for instance), but avoidance simply doesn't with current encounter design. Stacking stamina will make you win.

I know, I said felhoof was correct.

Edit: I see what you mean now. He did talk about gemming agi and stuff iirc.

Idk, I guess a lot of that was anub specific.

Edit2: Also: every druid I've ever seen goes for EHP for most fights.

Edit3: Yes stacking stam make you win, I completely agree.

Edit4: I edited my above post.

[Chasey]

Source: kebess God damn it... i guess i'll just go ask my question on another site... thanks a lot...

Wow I didn't realize this was MMO-Champs forum now.
I don't see anything wrong with someone asking a question pretaining to them. Everyone likes to know that thier way of doing things is bad or good.
If you don't like the question don't answer. If you do try and be civil, that is what seperates this forum from many others.

If you don't believe what I just wrote go to the main forum page and look at the HALP section.

Not everyone spends a ton of time here and reads every thread, and the search doesn't always narrow down the info you want.

So should I stack stam.... lol

[Kazeyonoma]

Chasey, the safe answer is "probably", the educated answer is, "depends on the fight."

[Chasey]

Source: Kazeyonoma Chasey, the safe answer is "probably", the educated answer is, "depends on the fight."

I'm sorry it was sarcasm...I was just trying to lighten up the tread that seemed tense a bit.
I've always been a fan of stam, even in tbc. Its just a solid stat.