[Kaist]

I've read through the forums here, and still can find the answer. I am a deep wounds tank (swinging a slow 2.6 weapon for the extra threat and damage).

23.76% Dodge - Rating of 416
18.46% Parry - Rating of 189
18.79% Block - Rating of 51
542 Defense - Rating of 701
Armory link to my warrior...

I have been told on numerous occasions to stack stamina, but I have been noticing warriors stacking defense and hitting numbers of 581 and above. I do not understand this. Is this a personal preference thing? Should I as a prot warrior be looking at other stats over stam or should I stick to stacking stam. My current level of tanking is 10 man ToC.

Are there any suggestions that anyone can give me for gear / gem / enchant wise?

I have seen the ratios of 1,8:2,4:1 and If my math is correct, my values are at 0,13:3,78:1. Does this mean I should stack more parry? I still am not following this ratio.

Thanks for the help. This is my 1st post here on tankspot, I hope I didn't put this in the wrong thread!

[krc]

Well right now for current content which is ToC stam stacking all the way. Every single boss in ToC the main source of damage is unmitagable making stamina the current best stat. When you see warriors hitting numbers such as 581 defense means they are probably in an avoidance set for a few bosses in Ulduar that are better tuned to avoidance than EH.

Your gear and enchants look pretty good maybe a little more expertise here and there but not really a must. I would try and sacrifice a little dodge for some parry if you have a chance but be sure not to sacrifice much EH for it because EH is far more important than avoidance in ToC.

[Joacimcans]

Source: Kaist I've read through the forums here, and still can find the answer. I am a deep wounds tank (swinging a slow 2.6 weapon for the extra threat and damage). 23.76% Dodge - Rating of 416 18.46% Parry - Rating of 189 18.79% Block - Rating of 51 542 Defense - Rating of 701 Armory link to my warrior... I have been told on numerous occasions to stack stamina, but I have been noticing warriors stacking defense and hitting numbers of 581 and above. I do not understand this. Is this a personal preference thing? Should I as a prot warrior be looking at other stats over stam or should I stick to stacking stam. My current level of tanking is 10 man ToC. Are there any suggestions that anyone can give me for gear / gem / enchant wise? I have seen the ratios of 1,8:2,4:1 and If my math is correct, my values are at 0,13:3,78:1. Does this mean I should stack more parry? I still am not following this ratio. Thanks for the help. This is my 1st post here on tankspot, I hope I didn't put this in the wrong thread!

My question is are these people actually stacking defense or is it just a by product of thier gear. I know almost all of the ToC gear has MASSIVE amounts of defense rating on it. So unless you see people actually socketing straight defense gems then maybe it is just the gear they are wearing.

[Kaist]

Source: Joacimcans My question is are these people actually stacking defense or is it just a by product of thier gear. I know almost all of the ToC gear has MASSIVE amounts of defense rating on it. So unless you see people actually socketing straight defense gems then maybe it is just the gear they are wearing.

no, it is socketing defense.
end game tank reference here

[krc]

As I said early my guess he is in an avoidance set because he is mainly and socketing and enchanting for avoidance. Like I said in my first post some bosses in Ulduar are fit more to avoidance just whatever you do don't try and stack defense in ToC because almost all heavy damage will be unavoidable making it sort of obsolete in ToC. Although there is a reason for gemming for defense in ToC for Anub's adds and how you need an unhittable set this guy isn't but that could be the reason someone socketing for defense.

Quite a bit comes from gear too, alot of tanks I have seen in close to best in slot have around 570 defense so even if he didn't socket for it he still would have a crazy amount of defense.

[Razmo]

The large amount of Defense comes as a by product on defense gear with Expertise. Expertise gear has loads of Defense. Maybe because of the low dodge/parry on that gear. My offspec is Prot and I go for sta/expertise atm.

[kolben]

His avoidance is good, and his EH is as well. I've seen guys running around with 42K HP unbuffed and low, low avoidance numbers - that seems dumb to me.

Unless something happened and I completely missed it, Defense rating nets the most overall avoidance of any stat.

Stacking stamina at the expense of anything else seems really silly to me. I went to a TOC25 with two other tanks who were missing taunts and needing to be Battle Resed - meanwhile I had as much as 5K less HP but much better armor and avoidance I lived through everything and I didn't miss my taunts. There is just a lot more to tank gearing than zomgHP.

[bdcman22]

I have to agree with Kolben here. time and time again i find myself laughing at dead stam stacked tanks. I normally don't have the highest HP amongst the tanks but i take alot less damage then the others one becuz i have better avoidance etc. I would highly suggest against stam stacking its just for people to Epeen and in the end cause raid wipes. I've seen 42k hp unbuffed tanks get raid buffed and then 3 shot in ToC.

[lyd]

generally I gear for stamina when i'm tanking bosses, and avoidance when i'm tanking multiple adds.

I've heard advice to the effect that raiding with over 44k for wars, dk and palys, and over 50k for druids is excessive. there definitely does come a point when the additional stamina becomes a bit redundant and less effective than avoidance or mitigation.

[Stengel]

Source: lyd generally I gear for stamina when i'm tanking bosses, and avoidance when i'm tanking multiple adds. I've heard advice to the effect that raiding with over 44k for wars, dk and palys, and over 50k for druids is excessive. there definitely does come a point when the additional stamina becomes a bit redundant and less effective than avoidance or mitigation.

I'm at about 51k hp buffed as warrior in ToC 25 Heroic, and it's definitely not excessive... so it all depends on the content that you're doing.

[krc]

I see what you are saying Kolben but I don't understand how stacking stamina in ToC is silly if almost all major damage coming in is unavoidable, unmitigable damage. I am not saying that stamina is the best for everything just for ToC, there are very many bosses where avoidance and EH is better just in the small sample of ToC where stamina is the main stat as opposed to avoidance and especially EH.

But even in ToC when you pass up huge amounts of avoidance or armor for a small amount of stamina its not the right decision, and for what you were saying about the two other tanks died it easily could happen to anyone because of RNG. Again I am not stamina is better just for ToC it is better.

[Edgewalker]

Source: krc But even in ToC when you pass up huge amounts of avoidance or armor for a small amount of stamina its not the right decision,

Not sure where people are seeing this choice minus trinket slots.
Blizzard simply doesnt have that itemization available.

[krc]

Source: Edgewalker Not sure where people are seeing this choice minus trinket slots. Blizzard simply doesnt have that itemization available.

In T9 the only real choices you have other than trinkets is with the Emblem of Triumph gear but in Ulduar there was a quite a few options you could choose from. But you could also take what I said from a theoretical view point that IF there was many different options in ToC I wouldn't pass up huge amounts of armor and avoidance for a small amount of stamina.

[Kaist]

my question is, is losing 1800 hp worth trading 1792 armor and an on use of ~11% dodge?

i got a couple new pieces the other day that brought my stats to:
~26% dodge
~21% parry
~16% block
~35,600 hit points (down from 36,200 with straight stam trinkets)

[krc]

That is a tough choice, the 1800 health is worth about 1.7k more EH than the Glyph of Indomitably and especially in ToC with is full of non mitigable damage but the Glyph of Indomitably's on use is the best in the game making it very useful.

I would take the 1792 armor and the on use affect over the 1800 health because of this, Say you had a standard melee boss such as XT 25, he hits for around 20,000 with a 2.4 swing timer, adding 11% dodge would save around 16,000 damage every 20 seconds with a two minute cooldown, if you were to pop it every time it was off CD you would be adding 2.6k of EH on you if not more if you include physical burst.

The only place where I think the 1800 health would top it is in fights where there is a very high percentage of damage is non mitigable and doesn't hit hard enough to really threaten a death at all through physical damage.

[Kamani]

Source: Kaist my question is, is losing 1800 hp worth trading 1792 armor and an on use of ~11% dodge? i got a couple new pieces the other day that brought my stats to: ~26% dodge ~21% parry ~16% block ~35,600 hit points (down from 36,200 with straight stam trinkets)

Uhh, I don't raid, but the state of mind stays from BC I suppose.

Is there a predictable period of large burst damage and or lack of healing in any of the encounters?

I think of Brutallus transitions. Stomp, Moreos/BT trinket(name escapes me), taunt. Moroes' was phenomenal for that purpose.

[Aragon]

As a warrior, I'm hitting over 50k HP raid buffed. I choose not to stack only stam because I know avoidance is good. You only need enough stam to survive a certain amount of time of a worst case scenario of a string of hits. Defense is still good as it helps buff miss (omnidirectional and while stunned) as well as block (much better now, even on harder hitting bosses), and dodge and parry.

In ToTC, the first beast and Icehowl both use a stun (stomp and ferocious butt) that seem to make sure the tank can survive 2 hits in a row. Also, Anub'Arak does something similar with his stun. However, I've noticed these abilities are only hitting me for around 20-25k at worse in which case even with the 50k+ HP i have, I would stand a greater chance of surviving if I completely avoid an attack while the healers top me off. Even block is helpful now... With around 2k base block value in raid, it's nice to see a bunch of hits reduced by 7-8k by blocking (shield block/crit blocks/glyph).

I still think high HP + armor is the way to go for progression content when bosses are hitting super hard. However, I do think at this point, there is a time when there is enough HP for the encounters from the base gear alone. Bosses are not hitting massively harder, but instead much faster (anub adds, twins on abilities, jaraxxus maidens). As it's been stated many times around many forums now...

The highest EH WITH avoidance equals the highest survival chance.

[Wahuuga]

I'm pretty sure if your armorying top warriors, we're gemming defense to build unhittable sets for tanking Anub Arak adds. We're not using it for tanking normal content.

[Kamani]

Source: Aragon As a warrior, I'm hitting over 50k HP raid buffed. I choose not to stack only stam because I know avoidance is good. You only need enough stam to survive a certain amount of time of a worst case scenario of a string of hits. Defense is still good as it helps buff miss (omnidirectional and while stunned) as well as block (much better now, even on harder hitting bosses), and dodge and parry. In ToTC, the first beast and Icehowl both use a stun (stomp and ferocious butt) that seem to make sure the tank can survive 2 hits in a row. Also, Anub'Arak does something similar with his stun. However, I've noticed these abilities are only hitting me for around 20-25k at worse in which case even with the 50k+ HP i have, I would stand a greater chance of surviving if I completely avoid an attack while the healers top me off. Even block is helpful now... With around 2k base block value in raid, it's nice to see a bunch of hits reduced by 7-8k by blocking (shield block/crit blocks/glyph). I still think high HP + armor is the way to go for progression content when bosses are hitting super hard. However, I do think at this point, there is a time when there is enough HP for the encounters from the base gear alone. Bosses are not hitting massively harder, but instead much faster (anub adds, twins on abilities, jaraxxus maidens). As it's been stated many times around many forums now... The highest EH WITH avoidance equals the highest survival chance.

3.3 releases a new 25 man. Don't be shocked if mobs will be doing 28k hits and low 50k doesn't cut it. I certainly didn't think I would need to gem for more stam after killing Archimonde the first time. Then the entirety of SW proved me oh so wrong.

[Dragaan]

Source: Kaist no, it is socketing defense. end game tank reference here

He's socketing defense for anub adds on 25man heroic. Why he's not using block gear (and socketing that gear with defense) like most other add tanks, I'm not sure. But if you see tanks in big-name guilds socketing defense atm, it's for their anub add set.