[fuddjupp]

I was courius how much more rage an Ulduar Warrior Tank would get with the new rage proccs from 3.2 Shield Specialization and if taking 3 points out of Focus Rage would be a good choice to have 3 extra points for Shield Spec.

First many of us don't know where we shoult get the 3 talentpoints from that are needes for Shield Specialization. One opportunity would be Focus Rage. I wasn't sure if Shield Specialization would really gain so much rage that Focus Rage would get unnecessary so I took a WWS from our XT-002 hardmode firstkill this week.
XT-002 is pretty much tank&spank if you MT him, so you should get pretty much hits and the fight is quite long which should provide a good amount of numbers.

WWS:
Wow Web Stats

Armory:
The World of Warcraft Armory

Shield Spec benefit
Attacks dodged: 49
Attacks parried: 21
Attacks blocked: 0
-------------------
Rage proccs: 70 * 5 rage = 350 rage

Focus Rage benefit
211 HS
70 SS
51 Revenge
50 Devastate
47 Thunder
16 Conc
-----------------
445 abilities * 3 rage = 1335 rage

I don't know why but shockwave somehow doesn't show up in the parse. With shockwave there would be even more rage you save vom Focus Rage. I block 0 hits because my block rating is only abaout 13% I guess and I used the 4pc T8 on Tantrums. Even if you add maybe 10 blocks (= 50 rage) the new Shield Spec doesn't gain enough rage to be better than Focus Rage.

Where shall we take 3 talentpoints for Shield Specc? Deep Wounds, Thunderclap, Imp. Shildwall, AtT will all hurt our overall performance too much!

[Bullwerk]

I honestly don't see this new rage on avoidance mechanic as something that will be in any way useful on Ulduar progression. The avoidance streaks that I recieve and must be tolerated at this point are manageable. More often than not my rage bar is near full from the incoming damage and the scroll wheel is spinning away. If I get an avoidance streak I stop HS for a few swings until I get smacked again and start up HS all over again.

For me the real benefit of this is not having to completely gimp my gear to help my guildies on alts or less progressed characters do the instances they need whether it be Naxx or Heroics. I hate turning down my in game friends when they ask me to tank a group because the mechanics of warrior tanking and gearing make it too frustrating to tolerate. Rage on avoidance will mean near full rage bars and Cleave spam in heroics making them possibly tolerable again, hell maybe even fun.

To deal with HS spam and rage issues in progression tanking they are going to need to look at the rage mechanic all together and revise the whole system. Until that change is made I will happily take this bandaid/quality of life improvement to make the less serious aspects of this game more pleasurable.

[Kerg]

Hmmm... I don't see a good place to free up the points for an Ulduar MT progression spec either. I dual Prot specs (a 5/15/51 Max Survivability spec for most bosses and a 15/5/51 Threat spec that I use situationally), so I will likely include the new 5/5 Shield Spec in my Threat spec at the expense of pts. in Anticipation or something.

So like the poster above said, I think this new talent will only be helpful in encounters we outgear. In any fight where we're more worried about dying than maximizing threat, we'll probably have plenty of rage anyway and won't need it.

[Khor]

I was just fooling around with some builds, and I think I might have found a place to get those pesky 3 points. Improved Thunderclap. That's right, I said it. I'm not entirely sure how the loss of the slowing effect will change damage taken when offset by the measly 3% block most of us are going to gain. While it does hamper our AoE threat a bit, I think a portion of that could be made up with the increased threat from Damage Shield (More blocks = more damage).

The build I'm currently experimenting with is 15/3/53.

Arms: Still has all the goodies like 5% parry and deep wounds. Relatively unchanged.
Fury: No points in cruelty. 3/3 AttT
Prot: No points in Imp. Bloodrage, Imp. Tclap, Imp. Spell Reflect, Imp. Disarm, Puncture, or Safeguard. Pretty similar to the Ulduar MT build.


/discuss?

[Stengel]

It should have been obvious to anyone that focused rage is much better than shield spec. when tanking one mob, and that not much is changing even with both.

On trash it will make a huge difference though.

[Bluespirit]

I'm a druid, and I don't pretend to know anything about warriors...

I personally don't like what Blizzard are doing here, I personally think Warriors and Druids should just have passive rage on avoidance. Basically 5 to 10 rage for avoided attacks while in defensive stance, and while in bear form.
Right now bears have 3 rage per avoided attack which is terrible, these talents should mimic being hit if there good talents. I personally hate rage starvation, and Blizzard have just missed the point IMO with these changes.

[Hossa]

Shockwave can easily miss due to the size of the boss. You will see this on a lot of dragon encounters or any boss that has a hit box bigger than others. You almost have to move in to use shockwave than step back so the mob doesn't reposition.

[protonly]

@ lonan - this might not help "cutting edge" content but I don't think it was designed for it. I think the change is a result of Warriors wanting to do content they outgear and having issues. I certainly don't have issues in Ulduar...but the big (solo) trash hits me for like 20k a whack. Heroic 5 mans are a different story (and you can bet your ass this will be handy with the badge explosion to help zerg some heroics for new gear.) This will help a LOT in older content and even progression trash (multi-mob) situations. Also consider some talents are better for different tanking situations...on a normal boss fight this is a waste of 5 talents...they hit so hard but on trash or add duty, it makes a lot easier. I think for most situations this is a great way to spend five talents.

@bluespirit - I agree this is some sort of a band-aid but this is a fix that is worlds better than what we Warriors have currently even though it is a band-aid. I /agree it should just be a passive stance ability but I'll take having to spec out of some arms talents (that I hated) for more prot talents (more prot, morez win) and have a WORLDS more enjoyable and fun play experience.

[Thad]

yeah this change is basically so you can tank older content without having to deal with the annoyance of having no rage because mobs can't hit you.

[fuddjupp]

Another solution would be to fit the procc in the Anticipation (5% dodge) talent, because no tank would question to take or not to takeAnticipation for any kind of specc.

[protonly]

Source: fuddjupp Another solution would be to fit the procc in the Anticipation (5% dodge) talent, because no tank would question to take or not to takeAnticipation for any kind of specc.

That might make too much sense Though when you think about it, it really does! Give you an extra 5% chance to dodge and rage on dodge/parry -- makes sense to me. Shield Spec can still give you 5 rage on block though and now you have flexibility in your spec.

[Trondhjem]

Source: protonly That might make too much sense Though when you think about it, it really does! Give you an extra 5% chance to dodge and rage on dodge/parry -- makes sense to me. Shield Spec can still give you 5 rage on block though and now you have flexibility in your spec.

thats the reason why they're not doing this


concerning the shockwave: there is a bug with using the siege vehicles and shockwave. sometimes your damage of your vehicle is not visible and indeed you dont do damage then. the same way, your shockwave is bugged afterwards.

[Eetabeetay]

Some napkin math I did based on my character's raid buffed stats. Both stats are assuming maxed talent points. I forgot to take tclap and parry hasting into account tho:


Shield Spec
Current Buffed Dodge+Block+Parry:
Dodge - 28.96%
Parry - 17.20%
Block - 16.88%

Total - 63.04%


Boss Swing Timer - 2.00s


Fight Length 100s

#of boss swings - 50

W/O T9 4pc

Avg # of Rage Gains: 10(Shield Block uptime) + 25(Shield Block downtime) = 35 total Rage gains = 175 rage

Divided By 100s = 1.75 rage/s

W/T9 4pc
Avg # of Rage Gains: 25(Shield Block uptime) + 16(Shield Block downtime) = 41 total Rage gains = 205 rage

Divided by 100s = 2.05 rage/s



Focused Rage:

2 rage/s From GCDS

+2.33 From HS spam.

4.33 rage/s total with 100% of white hits converted to HS.




So it still doesn't seem worth it, even with T9 4pc, to take 5/5 Shield Spec over 2/5 Shield Spec and 3/3 Focused Rage. If anyone sees any mistakes in my math, please correct me. Also I'd be interested to see different rage/s figures for various combinations of Focused Rage and Shield Spec. I could also potentially see Shield Spec overtaking Focused Rage in full TotC gear with 4pc T9. I also assumed these numbers on ulduar hard modes where you dont need to skimp on HSing due to lack of rage.

[enderwiggin]

I'm curently looking at full time "OFF tanking" and have started to look at a few different stacks that don't in clude the 5/5 cruelty, conc blow, Vigilance, Focused rage. These items seem really lack luster in the face My constantly full rage bar 10 to 15% to crit specials and flat out immunity. Also on the chopping block for me is imp revenge.

Im looking at safe gaurd to save healing and provide and addition reduction during fights where two tanks are req'd but not in all phases or other oddities that demand i be prot but useless for most the fight. 5/5 toughness for more armor, and armored to the teeth just cause more ap.

I don't see this build as too impressive but given what i believe to be lackluster scaling for the warrior class. I think/hope we are gonna see a more thorough overhaul than the one out lined in 3.2

The World of Warcraft Armory

there is the basis of the build with the 5 tp to spare or so.

[Kerg]

I don't see anywhere to get the 3 pts. for an Ulduar boss tanking spec (mine is 5/15/51). Improved Thunder Clap? Are you crazy? 2/5 SS is all I will be able to do.

For my 15/5/51 threat spec, I will likely take the pts. out of Anticipation to max out SS. Since threat is the priority in that spec, I don't mind trading 3% avoidance for it.

[Superspy23]

How many of those Shield Slams were SnB procs? How many of those Heroic Strikes were because of the revenge glyph? That could drastically change your rage from focused rage.

[Mindy]

After thinking about it for a bit, I don't think I'll change my tank spec at all. I'd still have a 40% chance with 2/5 shield spec. And it would best benefit when tanking multiple mobs - when rage isn't an issue anyway. Or doing legacy content - but I have my "nohit" set for that, giving me so much time to kill a boss anyway.

What really has to happen is some talent or innate skill in defensive stance that just gives us rage without relying on an outside source. If you look at my sig, focused rage drastically reduces the cooldown of bloodrage, making bloodrage perfect for an OT role, but not so OP for main tanking because rage is near infinite anyway. I'm not too worried about the PvP implications either since prot wars are mainly dealt with by ignoring them, forcing them to use white damage to get rage (and charge). But with this, they could, you know, use skills every 20 seconds :P