[Antemortem]

Pre-3.1 I tanked blood, and currently I still tank blood. I've always been happy with the TPS it puts out, and the boost to AoE threat made me smile. But I can't help but feel something is off. My spec is this:
Talent Calculator - World of Warcraft

After reading different threads I've been looking at Improved Icy Touch and Sudden Doom along with Hysteria. I've been curious, for the other blood tanks out there, what are your specs and rotations? Mine are:

AoE rotation:
IT > PS > PEST > BB > BT > BB

Single Target rotation:
IT > PS > DS > HS (spam)

I'm concerned mainly about my single target rotation and spec. Any suggestions?

[Feanorr]

Get the glyph of disease and dont bother with IT-PS anymore; more HS and more DS >>> more threat.


About rotation:
IT/PS/DS/HS/HS at start then:
DS/HS/HS/HS/pest // HS/HS/DS/HS/HS etc. Just use pest when your disease are about to fade (I usually do it at 5sec to be sure), DS when there is a frost and unholy rune not transformed into death and HS spam for the rest.

[Shadowman009]

Faenorr is correct with the Disease glyph it makes keeping your diseases up easier with less cost, but also for me I go into more blood with 8 in frost for the increased armor and Imp IT, only 10 in Unholy for the Dodge and Increased time on Diseases and hit chance the rest are in blood for blood worms which for me work surprisingly well. You can change Hsyteria for 2/2 into Blood Pres Also get ride of DnD glyph and get Death Strike glyph imo will help you more then DnD, then replace Vamp Blood with Disease glyph.

Talent Calculator - World of Warcraft

[Satorri]

Now that the dmg of DS no longer affects the healing, I'm thinking I may trade DS for RS for matters of threat, particularly once I'm sporting the 2 pc t8 bonus. RS is already my #1 threat move. I use the Disease glyph (wonderful as blood, really), and use Faenorr's described method above.

So, little numbers to support the thinking:
DS I use 2 per 20 sec, roughly, and the glyph is usually buffing my dmg by about 600. So 1200 per 20 sec, 60 per sec from the DS glyph, or 124 dtps.

Based on recent numbers, about 50% of my swings are RS's (though this number may be a bit diluted). On average it hits for 2600 non-crit and has about a 26% crit rate in raid buffs. That base crit adjusted average is about 3276 dmg per swing, or at about 17 swings per minute, 9 procs, thats 491 dps, or 1528 dtps (RS gets a 50% threat bonus factor on the dmg). The 2 pc set bonus will be 10% more dmg, so 541 dps, 1681 dtps, for a net increase of 153 dtps. The glyph alone increases the crit chance by 10%, so that will increase the crit adjusted average up to 3536 per swing, so now 530 dps, 1650 dtps, or an increase of 122 dtps (on par with DS glyph).

Compound the bonuses from the set, and RS now does a crit adj average of 3890 per swing, which is 583 dps, and 1815 dtps, for a grand total of 287 dtps gained.

So, the deltas:
no 2 pc, DS glyph = +124 tps on DS, +0 tps on RS = +124 net
no 2 pc, RS glyph = +0 tps on DS, +122 tps on RS = +122 net
w/ 2 pc, DS glyph = +124 on DS, +153 tps on RS = +277 net
w/ 2 pc, RS glyph = +0 tps on DS, +287 tps on RS = +287 net

Increasing avoidance will also increase RS damage, while AP and crit will increase each strike equally, so RS is likely the better pony to back in the long run as well.

[Fini]

Source: Shadowman009 Faenorr is correct with the Disease glyph it makes keeping your diseases up easier with less cost, but also for me I go into more blood with 8 in frost for the increased armor and Imp IT, only 10 in Unholy for the Dodge and Increased time on Diseases and hit chance the rest are in blood for blood worms which for me work surprisingly well. You can change Hsyteria for 2/2 into Blood Pres Also get ride of DnD glyph and get Death Strike glyph imo will help you more then DnD, then replace Vamp Blood with Disease glyph. Talent Calculator - World of Warcraft

Did I read this tree right? DRW and blood worms, but no Vampiric Blood and no Improved Rune Tap, as a Blood tank?

[Feanorr]

Source: Fini Did I read this tree right? DRW and blood worms, but no Vampiric Blood and no Improved Rune Tap, as a Blood tank?

And virulence is not very usefull as blood, the only spell I cast (exept at the start of a fight) is pest; it's a pain to miss it, but I prefer to cast it a few sec before I should (to get time to recast it if I miss) than spend 3 talent points for 1 spell every... 12 runes.

"Sartorri's 3.1 build shop" post will give you a very good blood spec and the reasons to take that and not this ^^

[Satorri]

Actually, Pest appears to work on the melee hit chance. Interestingly BB's haven't been registering ANY misses either. I've been a bit low on hit rating lately so I've seen a small miss margin on a couple of my moves, but from my most recent log, 300 hits of BB didn't miss once.

The only other spells on the spell hit chance for a Blood Knight are DC and IT. Quick math though, if you're melee special capped at 8%, you'll have 10% spell hit, and if you have a spriest or boomkin they'll bump that hit chance by 3% more putting you at 13%, only 4% shy of never missing, and ONLY on a boss. Virulence has been relegated to a dps-only if ever talent for me, and at that, only Frost. I pick it up as DPS Unholy only to get deeper in the tree, as a tank Anticipation is all you NEED from the first tier.

[Feanorr]

Source: Satorri Actually, Pest appears to work on the melee hit chance. Interestingly BB's haven't been registering ANY misses either. I've been a bit low on hit rating lately so I've seen a small miss margin on a couple of my moves, but from my most recent log, 300 hits of BB didn't miss once.

Good to know, thanks. I am not even melee hit capped at the moment so didnt know.

By the way I got a strange message a few times I was trying to use pest; something like "no path available" (sorry, direct french-english translation :P). Anyone else got it and know why? The mob was on me and I didnt had problem with my other skills so it shoudnt be a LOS problem.

[Neckra]

Source: Feanorr Good to know, thanks. I am not even melee hit capped at the moment so didnt know. By the way I got a strange message a few times I was trying to use pest; something like "no path available" (sorry, direct french-english translation :P). Anyone else got it and know why? The mob was on me and I didnt had problem with my other skills so it shoudnt be a LOS problem.

I've only seen that when I was standing on stairs tanking a boss. Moved up and all was well.

[Satorri]

Another interesting thing, I've managed to confirm now that Mark of Blood is staggered to appropriately heal after the damage that triggers the heal, effectively (so long as the dmg is larger than 4% of the target's health) making it never overheal, ever.

[Sagan]

what do you think of this build?
Talent Calculator - World of Warcraft

[Feanorr]

I think that many blood tank understimate Blood gorget; it's great, not for the +10% damage that isnt up all the time, but just for the -10% armor (as far as I know it "stack" with warrior/rogue debuff). The +10% damage is just a bonus.

[Satorri]

As a Blood DK, Blood-gorged is a MAJOR threat buff. Used well, your top 4 threat tools (amounting to 70-80% of your dmg out and more than that % of threat) are all physical dmg strikes: HS, RS, melee swings, DS.

If you play well and heavily to Blood's theme, you'll stack superior health and the more you do so the more often you'll get Blood-gorged's 10% dmg buff. With my testing this offered more threat value point for point than most every other talent, passed only by Bladed Armor as a tank. In my current typical blood tank set I'm sporting just over 46k health raid buffed, so I keep the 10% bonus so long as I stay above 34.5k health, which isn't terribly hard, and I help with the powerful self-healing.

In a raid with the 20% reduction applied by a warrior or rogue, and a druid for 5% more reduced, this 10% reduction beyond is a fantastic dmg buff for the 4 items above, it has worked very well for me.

[Voodan]

@ Satorri's RS vs. DS glyph choices. I think one issue that is missing from your analysis is fight mechanics for your particular tank role. Specifically any fight where you may not be taking a significant amount of melee swings, you won't have a high RS uptime. Overall I agree with your point though that in most situations, RS glyph with 2-piece t8 > DS glyph.

[Satorri]

The ratio of RS's in my normal swings is based on real numbers from a raid where I mixed MT'ing and OT'ing, though I was always tanking. So it is a slightly more conservative value than if I were taking continual hits, and more conservative compared to the buff in avoidance I'll get in my full Ulduar tank set (picking up about 4% more dodge, though losing about .6% parry).

[Antemortem]

Source: Satorri As a Blood DK, Blood-gorged is a MAJOR threat buff. Used well, your top 4 threat tools (amounting to 70-80% of your dmg out and more than that % of threat) are all physical dmg strikes: HS, RS, melee swings, DS. If you play well and heavily to Blood's theme, you'll stack superior health and the more you do so the more often you'll get Blood-gorged's 10% dmg buff. With my testing this offered more threat value point for point than most every other talent, passed only by Bladed Armor as a tank. In my current typical blood tank set I'm sporting just over 46k health raid buffed, so I keep the 10% bonus so long as I stay above 34.5k health, which isn't terribly hard, and I help with the powerful self-healing. In a raid with the 20% reduction applied by a warrior or rogue, and a druid for 5% more reduced, this 10% reduction beyond is a fantastic dmg buff for the 4 items above, it has worked very well for me.

Yea, I used to roll with BG, but I recently respecced and had to drop it. It's a real nice threat boost when it's up, but without it I can still push an average of 4.5k - 6k tps with spikes up to 7k - 8k. With a lot of health and a reliable healer I'm sure those numbers could go up.

[Phyrce]

I'm a bit new to DK Tanking. Up until about 2 weeks ago, I've been tanking as a Warrior and was recently asked kindly to switch my main to my Death Knight. I'm on a steep learning curve here... just trying to soak up Valuable Information.

Comparing my spec to Sartorri's DK... we have very similar builds. I currently have 3/3 WotN... which I plan to move to Improved Icy Talons. I'm just not impressed with WotN.

However... my real question is this. Why Bloody Vengeance over Sudden Doom? I already know that even while in full tanking gear that it's completely viable to keep BV at near 100% uptime... but it still seems like free death coils (with no GCD) would prove to be the better choice.

EDIT: Just realized I'm looking at an out of date topic. But it seems that nearly all of this information is still relevant.

[Esch]

Source: Phyrce However... my real question is this. Why Bloody Vengeance over Sudden Doom? I already know that even while in full tanking gear that it's completely viable to keep BV at near 100% uptime... but it still seems like free death coils (with no GCD) would prove to be the better choice.

BV buffs all physical damage, which includes white melee, and Heart, Death, Plague & Rune strikes. The damage increase 'across the board' is significant for BV with so many attacks affected. At the very least, 9% more damage for Rune Strike is probably better alone for threat than Deathcoil.

[Ðeathshot]

Im just getting use to tanking since my main is a mage but im not sure what all of the completely needed talants are like subversion. After reading some posts my tree idea shaped into this Talent Calculator - World of Warcraft

I like to tank with a double hander. I thought that on a single boss or double my dancing rune weapon might help my damage and threat by doubling it. ill take suggestions were their needed but i had an extra point anyhow.

Is will of necro polis needed since ima tank im not under 35% health i stay near 75%. I see how it could be usefull but haveing it just means your heals are bad you'd only be hit once and then fully heald so i thought it was more of a heroic tanking talant.

p.s. im tanking raids not heroics 10mans mostly but some 25mans

[Ðeathshot]

whats the best third major glyph i should use D&D +20% or something else?

I took hysteria instead of DRW. figured id cast it on a melee