Warrior Unrelenting Assault -- 3.1 Alternative Build - Page 3

**Dubzil** · #41 04-13-2009, 03:33 PM

Source: Arianne
I don't really think it's a good idea to encourage any tank to dual spec two tank specs unless you only have two tanks in your guild.

Why's that? if you want a high dps/threat spec for some fights and a normal tank set for other encounters it's perfectly fine to have 2 tank specs. you can have 10 tanks and still go dual tank spec if you want.

Arianne · #42 04-13-2009, 03:38 PM

I don't think it's fair to the other tanks on your team to do so. It means that you're saying that you're only willing to tank and that's all you're willing to do. I guess if you don't mind sitting out instead of tanking then it's fine, but most fights don't require multiple tanks. Therefore if you only have two tank specs, you're not contributing to the team's flexibility.

Additionally, if your 'threat' spec still doesn't allow you as good of threat as the 'threat' spec of a different class (or 'mitigation' spec, etc), then why are you trying to push out the tanks of that other class instead of contributing to the team by having a DPS spec?

**Dubzil** · #43 04-13-2009, 03:41 PM

Long Long ago before dual specs came out, people had a Main Spec, its what they did and they liked doing it. They went tank spec because they like to tank. They would often change up their tank spec to try out new things. Now that Dual spec is nearing they don't HAVE to give up their dual spec to a spec they don't want to play. If a tank wants to be a tank, and wants to be good at all encounters there's no reason they shouldn't be able to. If your other tanks want to get in on the action they're welcome to.

Arianne · #44 04-13-2009, 03:43 PM

And then you end up with 3 tanks sitting and 1 tank in the raid (depending on which tank is better for that encounter). Then you end up with a piece of gear dropping that tank #3 could have used, but because he was inflexible, you sat him for a DPSer instead. Plus it means that your roster has to have 3 extra DPSers to sub in for the tanks on bosses. Overall, having two tank specs doesn't help your raid.

**Ezimodnar** · #45 04-13-2009, 03:45 PM

Source: Arianne
I don't really think it's a good idea to encourage any tank to dual spec two tank specs unless you only have two tanks in your guild.

Why not?

Is there something wrong with enjoying tanking that much? With wanting to be as good as possible in any situation?

**Dubzil** · #46 04-13-2009, 03:46 PM

All tanks are able to do all encounters, this is what Blizzard has been pushing. If another tank wants to get in on the action and tank something, they're welcome to, doesn't mean you have to go DPS. There are many encounters in ulduar that are not solo tanked. You are not hurting your raid by picking 2 tank specs, if you don't want to dps then don't, maybe your other tanks want to DPS some, they're welcome to use DPS for their off-spec so they can help out with DPSing.

Since when does a tank have to sit out for a DPSer because there's a solo tank fight in the instance??

Arianne · #47 04-13-2009, 03:48 PM

Depends on how 'casual' your guild is and whether they want to carry the useless person in a fight.

If any tank is able to do any encounter, then why do you need 2 tank specs instead of just one?

**Dubzil** · #48 04-13-2009, 03:49 PM

you don't "need" 2 tank specs, some tanks just like to be the best that they can be, there's nothing wrong with having another spec that will improve some of the fights.

no casual or hardcore guilds consider off-tanks useless. this is how the game has always been, off-tanks aren't dpsers, they sit there and don't do anything some fights, its not like they get insta-benched because they are doing their job when they are needed. What game have you been playing?

Arianne · #49 04-13-2009, 03:53 PM

Being the best means swapping in the best tank for the fight, not having someone use a slightly better spec for something that another class does better than they do baseline.

I guess I've played in more hardcore guilds than you have. In Sunwell we most definitely swapped people in and out and had people respec for pretty much every fight. 3 tanks on Kalecgos (druid/war/X), 2 on Brut (druid/war), 3 on Felmyst (druid or war/2x pally), 2 on Twins (dru/war), 3 on M'uru (dru/war/pal). We didn't carry the extra tanks, we had them sit or respec.

Tsosietank · #50 04-13-2009, 04:00 PM

I am going to give the spec a shot, just to learn it, sounds fun and new ways to tank are always exciting.

The only question i have is . . .

Why put points in Sweeping Strike and Mortal Strike if you are not going to use them . . .why dont we just fill up Iron Will?

**Norik** · #51 04-13-2009, 04:31 PM

Any recommendations for the lone warrior tank in the guild? With that build should I completely drop the sunders from my rotation or take the hit and apply them?

Neurth · #52 04-13-2009, 04:38 PM

The purpose of this post obviously isn't to have every tank have two tank specs.

I'll personally have a max survival spec and a the UA threat spec. If you can't see the benefit of it I don't know what to say.

I don't think killing KJ after 3.0 makes you 'hardcore' either.

Arianne · #53 04-13-2009, 04:40 PM

Eh, I didn't say I was 'hardcore', I said 'more hardcore'.

I'm well aware that I'm not in what a 'hardcore' guild is commonly defined as.

I'm mostly arguing that benefiting yourself isn't the same as benefiting your raid group, particularly if you have multiple tanks in your raid group.

**Dubzil** · #54 04-13-2009, 04:41 PM

You need sunders up, your whole raid benefits from them. If you're the only warrior in the raid, this build is probably not the best for you, but I have done it, dps wasn't the greatest but it was something new.

I would intro with revengex2 for aggro, pop up 5 sunders as quick as you can, then spam revenge til sunder's about to wear and re-up it

Qwentyn · #55 04-13-2009, 04:45 PM

Is it only me that see this spec and starts to think: Hmm... all we need now is a good 2h whit def stats and some extra Dodge/Parry?

**Dubzil** · #56 04-13-2009, 04:47 PM

thats what came to my head when i first heard of the spec, but i believe you'd get eaten as a warrior without a shield

bigredbird · #57 04-13-2009, 04:53 PM

Source: Arianne
I don't really think it's a good idea to encourage any tank to dual spec two tank specs unless you only have two tanks in your guild.

Thanks for bringing this up Arianne and the back and forth between you and Dubzil (and others) has been great to read. I've built a decent DPS set in anticipation of duel spec and after reading this thread I'm a bit undecided on which direction to go.

idn · #58 04-13-2009, 05:03 PM

Source: Norik
Any recommendations for the lone warrior tank in the guild? With that build should I completely drop the sunders from my rotation or take the hit and apply them?

My understanding is that rogues can completely replace Sunder in 3.1 (someone please correct me if this is incorrect).

Assuming I am correct and you have a willing Rogue amongst your ranks, you could avoid Sundering completely and focus solely on threat.

As for the lone Warrior tank suggestion if you truly enjoy Main Tanking, I would highly recommend tanking dual tank specs and showing your guild that you take the role seriously and you're willing to make the sacrifice to be an optimal tank for as many given scenarios as possible. I think the Arms/Prot Revenge hybrid is a perfect 2nd tanking spec for this.

Arianne · #59 04-13-2009, 05:09 PM

Source: bigredbird
Thanks for bringing this up Arianne and the back and forth between you and Dubzil (and others) has been great to read. I've built a decent DPS set in anticipation of duel spec and after reading this thread I'm a bit undecided on which direction to go.

I really think it depends a lot on your guild. Do you have other good tanks of classes that are different than yours? Are you trying for hard modes? Are you ok with swapping people in and out? Are you ok with sitting people? How big is your roster? How do you do loot? /shrug Those are questions that are going to be different for everyone.

Doldasai · #60 04-13-2009, 05:10 PM

I too like the discussion that's developed between Arianne and Dubzil, though it probably deserves a thread of its own. It's simply off-topic here. Having listened to Veneretio's recent podcast about having two tank specs, I've sort of just assumed that this discussion was for the benefit of those hardcore tanks who intend to go that route.

But on that off-topic of "why have 2 tank specs," here's my 2 coppers:

In a perfect world (of Warcraft), one would get to MT everything because she is hardcore, she's min-maxed her gear, and she has not one tank spec but two. But in the actual WoW, you may get passed over nonetheless - for someone who's been there longer, or outranks you, for example - and then you do end up benched, because in the effort to make yourself the Very Best Tank Out There you've forgotten all the other people you raid with. And a truly great tank should never lose sight of that.