[Roana]

There have been some questions on how to best balance avoidance stats. As it turns out, the basic rules are pretty simple:

Get enough defense so that you are crit-immune.
Get defense or dodge rating for further avoidance. Try to aim for a defense/dodge rating ratio somewhere between 3:2 and 2:1. However, even pure defense rating will get you very close to the optimal point in most practical cases and especially at low avoidance levels it is absolutely not worth sweating over getting dodge rating for the perfect balance. We're mostly talking about a fraction of a percentage point in difference here (unless the miss cap is very low).
Avoid parry rating, unless the item it is on is superior to what you can attain otherwise.
Don't sacrifice other valuable tanking stats to maximally tweak avoidance: You're likely going to pay more than you will get in return. The curve is relatively flat.

The actual benefit of each rating stat depends on the exact value of the miss cap for diminishing returns (which is, as of yet, unknown). However, as it turns out, even without knowing the exact miss cap, you can't stray too far away from the optimum by following the above rules.

The exact breakdowns for various theoretic miss caps are contained in the following tables.

The value for miss_cap and avoidance values are percentages, RAT is total rating points to be distributed, DEF, DODG, PARR are the rating breakdowns for the best case, BEST gives the best avoidance available using that breakdowns. The remaining columns list total avoidance for various defense/dodge rating ratios (in order: defense rating only, dodge rating only, 2 points of defense rating for every point of dodge rating, 3 points of defense rating for every 2 points of dodge rating).

Note that avoidance values do not include base dodge, parry, miss, or bonuses from talents.

miss_cap = 15.0
 RAT |  DEF | DODG | PARR | BEST  |  1:0  |  0:1  |  2:1  |  3:2
 300 |  102 |  198 |    0 |  7.40 |  7.08 |  7.31 |  7.32 |  7.35
 600 |  260 |  340 |    0 | 14.02 | 13.24 | 13.51 | 13.88 | 13.95
 900 |  423 |  477 |    0 | 19.99 | 18.70 | 18.82 | 19.80 | 19.90
1200 |  575 |  613 |   12 | 25.41 | 23.61 | 23.42 | 25.18 | 25.32
1500 |  672 |  753 |   75 | 30.38 | 28.08 | 27.45 | 30.11 | 30.27
1800 |  769 |  893 |  138 | 34.98 | 32.17 | 31.01 | 34.63 | 34.82

miss_cap = 30.0
 RAT |  DEF | DODG | PARR | BEST  |  1:0  |  0:1  |  2:1  |  3:2
 300 |  134 |  166 |    0 |  7.43 |  7.25 |  7.31 |  7.41 |  7.42
 600 |  339 |  261 |    0 | 14.19 | 13.79 | 13.51 | 14.16 | 14.18
 900 |  544 |  356 |    0 | 20.37 | 19.73 | 18.82 | 20.36 | 20.37
1200 |  749 |  451 |    0 | 26.06 | 25.15 | 23.42 | 26.05 | 26.06
1500 |  955 |  545 |    0 | 31.31 | 30.13 | 27.45 | 31.31 | 31.30
1800 | 1162 |  638 |    0 | 36.18 | 34.73 | 31.01 | 36.17 | 36.16

miss_cap = 45.0
 RAT |  DEF | DODG | PARR | BEST  |  1:0  |  0:1  |  2:1  |  3:2
 300 |  151 |  149 |    0 |  7.45 |  7.32 |  7.31 |  7.44 |  7.45
 600 |  379 |  221 |    0 | 14.27 | 14.01 | 13.51 | 14.27 | 14.27
 900 |  608 |  292 |    0 | 20.58 | 20.17 | 18.82 | 20.58 | 20.56
1200 |  837 |  363 |    0 | 26.42 | 25.86 | 23.42 | 26.41 | 26.36
1500 | 1065 |  435 |    0 | 31.85 | 31.12 | 27.45 | 31.83 | 31.75
1800 | 1294 |  506 |    0 | 36.91 | 36.02 | 31.01 | 36.88 | 36.75

miss_cap = 60.0
 RAT |  DEF | DODG | PARR | BEST  |  1:0  |  0:1  |  2:1  |  3:2
 300 |  161 |  139 |    0 |  7.46 |  7.35 |  7.31 |  7.45 |  7.46
 600 |  405 |  195 |    0 | 14.33 | 14.13 | 13.51 | 14.33 | 14.32
 900 |  649 |  251 |    0 | 20.71 | 20.42 | 18.82 | 20.70 | 20.65
1200 |  893 |  307 |    0 | 26.65 | 26.26 | 23.42 | 26.62 | 26.53
1500 | 1137 |  363 |    0 | 32.20 | 31.70 | 27.45 | 32.13 | 31.99
1800 | 1381 |  419 |    0 | 37.39 | 36.79 | 31.01 | 37.28 | 37.09

miss_cap = 75.0
 300 |  167 |  133 |    0 |  7.47 |  7.37 |  7.31 |  7.46 |  7.46
 600 |  422 |  178 |    0 | 14.36 | 14.21 | 13.51 | 14.36 | 14.35
 900 |  677 |  223 |    0 | 20.80 | 20.58 | 18.82 | 20.77 | 20.72
1200 |  932 |  268 |    0 | 26.81 | 26.52 | 23.42 | 26.74 | 26.63
1500 | 1188 |  312 |    0 | 32.45 | 32.09 | 27.45 | 32.32 | 32.15
1800 | 1444 |  356 |    0 | 37.74 | 37.31 | 31.01 | 37.54 | 37.31

miss_cap = 90.0
 RAT |  DEF | DODG | PARR | BEST  |  1:0  |  0:1  |  2:1  |  3:2
 300 |  172 |  128 |    0 |  7.47 |  7.38 |  7.31 |  7.47 |  7.47
 600 |  434 |  166 |    0 | 14.39 | 14.26 | 13.51 | 14.39 | 14.37
 900 |  697 |  203 |    0 | 20.86 | 20.68 | 18.82 | 20.82 | 20.76
1200 |  961 |  239 |    0 | 26.93 | 26.70 | 23.42 | 26.83 | 26.71
1500 | 1226 |  274 |    0 | 32.63 | 32.36 | 27.45 | 32.45 | 32.26
1800 | 1491 |  309 |    0 | 38.00 | 37.68 | 31.01 | 37.73 | 37.46

[Satrina]

Nice summary! I've gone and shamelessly linked you from the DR article. I wonder if parry rating was meant to be a "don't bother" stat?

[veneretio]

Excellent work. The information is greatly appreciated! (this does not mean you are allowed to sleep though Satrina )

[Kazeyonoma]

Sticky, this is probably the best and easiest reading format I've seen so far.

[smokeykurt]

very nice

im guessing this doesnt exactly apply for dks though.


i would have loved if you would have delved abit into other mitigation possibilities including block...and also talked about stamina some as well

[Roana]

Source: smokeykurt very nice im guessing this doesnt exactly apply for dks though.

Why not? Death knights, paladins, and warriors all have the exact same numbers for diminishing returns.

i would have loved if you would have delved abit into other mitigation possibilities including block...and also talked about stamina some as well

The approach I used wouldn't work, since you'd first have to define an (arbitrary) mitigation/survival metric in order to be able to find an optimum stat distribution. Maximum avoidance, on the other hand, is unambiguous.

[ttocs]

Well, it's an interesting perspective on it.

To try and wrap my head around this a little better, you're referring to miss_cap as the percentage that a particular aviodance stat (dodge/parry/defense) can provide?

If I read the rest of it right, the extra parry rating that DK's get (via Forceful Deflection) should have no impact on the results here, from a pure avoidance/survivability perspective.

[Kazeyonoma]

no what the miss_cap is are various avoidance/DR findings and comparisons based on if the coded DR cap for miss is X. just like how Parry and Dodge have coded caps that we Diminish towards (and since parry is around 44%? it DRs much faster) we likewise need to take cases where the miss_cap is either low, medium, or high to compare the value of various avoidance ratings (namely defense rating). No one knows what the DR cap for miss is right now so we use estimated values to get an idea of how good defense rating/miss is compared to dodge/parry.

[Satorri]

For Warriors, Paladins, and Death Knights:
Miss diminishes to (variable?)
Dodge diminishes to 88%
Parry diminishes to 47%

As such you get the more % improvement from dodge rating than parry rating, point for point (and in itemization levels). It appears to make parry rating a "why would you ever?" What I'm wondering is, parry from a boss has a special function, does it offer the same or something similar to us?

If so that would explain why parry gets the short end. Otherwise, maybe it is to specifically limit the Death Knight bonus from strength? Since they won't expect anyone to add more parry than is already on their gear?

[Kazeyonoma]

yes, parry offers the same function to players, it increases our next white swing by up to 40% depending on when the parry occurs in our swing timer. But for pure avoidance purposes, parry because of it's higher cost AND faster diminishing returns is very much so a "why would you ever" stat.

[Korvid]

Source: Roana Note that avoidance values do not include base dodge, parry, miss, or bonuses from talents.

So, if I understand correctly, the ratios of 3:2 and 2:1 are valid in the aggregate (for def to dodge including talents and bonuses as would be found in you paper doll screen) and I can, when considering gear, have that in mind for "optimization".

Or am I missing something?

[Roana]

Source: Korvid So, if I understand correctly, the ratios of 3:2 and 2:1 are valid in the aggregate (for def to dodge including talents and bonuses as would be found in you paper doll screen) and I can, when considering gear, have that in mind for "optimization".

The values are for rating points, not skill points. X defense rating : Y dodge rating. Talents don't give you rating bonuses, they give you skill bonuses. Similarly, base dodge, miss, parry is hardcoded; they don't give you a base rating, either.

The reason I used them as a basis is that dodge and defense rating have the same itemization cost, which is not true for dodge and defense skill. You can get the total defense/dodge/parry rating on your gear by mousing over the defense/dodge/parry value on your character sheet and look at the number after the word "rating" (except parry, which is oddly abbreviated to just "Parry <rating>").

[Korvid]

Ok, I see what you're saying Roana.

Thanks for clarifying and great work.

[Bluu]

So incredibly helpful, I now understand the mechanics of avoidance.

[GravityDK]

Very helpful. Took me a while to understand what RAT meant If you wanted to be really non-theoretician friendly you might use an example or something to help understanding. Regardless I'm referring people to this thread now, thank you.

[littleboots]

Can u help a blockhead out? I have re-rolled warrior and I am still learning. IS there a "standard" set of values a tank should shoot for to raid 25 mans? I am a little lost with the ratios and the graphs. Can it be simply put that u want 540 defense 25%dodge 20% parry and 24% block (not real numbers just an example) Are there percentage ratings I can shot for?

BTW I am always impressed with people like the OP. My hats off to you I wouldn't even know where to start figuring out what you have done. TYVM for passing ur knowledge along.

[Kazeyonoma]

gratz on the green promotion Roana! ;D

@littleboots:
to start tanking 10man naxx you probably want 20k unbuffed hp, 20k armor, 540 defense for sure, if you can get to 40% avoidance you should be good (i did this pre-wotlk and it worked well so I'm gonna assume it works well for us too) and you can obtain this 40% via miss, dodge, and parry, although i'd say 40% after DR, so closer to 45% total before DRs. If you can get those you're probably pretty good.

[littleboots]

Source: Kazeyonoma gratz on the green promotion Roana! ;D @littleboots: If you can get those you're probably pretty good.

TYVM for the reply. It is much appreciated.

[Kazeyonoma]

Just realized you ask for 25man naxx, I think if you have around 25k unbuffed hp and around 22k armor you'll be set, avoidance will PROBABLY go up to around 50% total before DRs (closer to what 45% after DR?). The only thing that you'll REALLY need to ramp up your gear for is 25 man patchwerk offtank duties. I've heard you really need to try to strive for close to 30k unbuffed HP just to survive his hateful strikes.

[Unrak]

Source: Kazeyonoma to start tanking 10man naxx you probably want 20k unbuffed hp, 20k armor, 540 defense for sure, if you can get to 40% avoidance you should be good (i did this pre-wotlk and it worked well so I'm gonna assume it works well for us too) and you can obtain this 40% via miss, dodge, and parry, although i'd say 40% after DR, so closer to 45% total before DRs. If you can get those you're probably pretty good.

Thanks for these simple easy to understand values

Could anyone shed any light on similar values for Druid tanks? Paladin Tanks? Death Knights?

Thanks in advance