[theckhd]

Just for the record, the math has been worked out over here. The most recent conclusion is basically what bloodbrother posted second-hand from Honor's blog:

Source: Theck First of all, don't slavishly follow this advice. This is for maximizing avoidance if you have two options with equal amounts of rating (i.e a gem with 10 dodge or 10 parry). It doesn't help you decide whether that item with 30 dodge rating is better or worse than another item with 60 parry rating. Use your own good judgment, or an addon such as RatingBuster for items with greatly disparate stat allocations. Keep (character_sheet_dodge_% - base_dodge_%)/(character_sheet_parry_% - base_parry_%) = 1.88 to maximize avoidance. Look up your base dodge and parry. Don't forget to do this while fully raid buffed (MotW, Kings, Libram procs, etc.). If you really want to micromanage, the proper ratio is 2.4:1.7:1 Dodge:Defense:Parry rating after subtracting out the break points, which is 689 defense rating, ~260 dodge rating, and ~140 parry rating after raid buffs (according to my graph anyway). These values are not exact, but they should be reasonable ballpark estimates for a fully raid-buffed tank.

Personally, I would just stick with the dodge/parry percentage ratio and not worry too much about defense. The difference between ignoring defense completely and including it is negligible, and won't cost you more than around 0.05% total avoidance. So don't actively avoid defense, but don't worry about keeping it in any particular ratio to dodge and parry.

[Rylasor]

So im a warrior, my def is set at 542 (708 rating, dodge is at 403 raiting, parry 286 rating)

My question here being, on the table you say RAT (the total raiting)if I add mine up its 1372 so lets say 1200 in you table.

I just dont understand it, you mean that my raiting should be somewhere between the breakdown you show for each?

Am I adding it wrong, or am I just completely lost? all I want to know is what the best balance between my avoidance is.

Also it is different for each miss cap, we dont have a miss cap right now right, ok so what difference does it make by higher/lower miss caps estimates.

Also the DR on dodge is higher than parry but does that still mean I should stack dodge? and completely forget parry? wouldnt gem for it or enchant it but if im at 26% dodge and 19% parry?.

But in my case my stats are above my % look like the following
23.32 for dodge and 19.93% for parry. is that balanced enough?

also question about block. what block value estimate is good for per say 25 man naxx if Im not stackin for it, and is block raiting something to want or just forget about it?
Not sure this is clear so you can send me an email and it'd be greatly appreciated

[Brama]

Ok, after reading this entire thread, I still feel kinda lost. As a prot warrior my stat line looks something like this:

Def Rating = 758
Dodge Rating = 518 25.38%
Parry Rating = 309 20.49%

I've gemmed with a few of the parry/def gems, because I assumed that the additional parry % would help with threat. My question is, am I in the ballpark for where I want to be as a prot warrior? I see so many tanks in general ignoring dodge/parry and just going for straight +30 stam regardless of the socket color. I've never liked being just a plain old meat shield, and I really want to understand how avoidance/mitigation works so I can be better, and help my fellow guildmates get better too. Any help or a barney style breakdown of how this all works would be greatly appriciated.

[theckhd]

Source: Rylasor So im a warrior, my def is set at 542 (708 rating, dodge is at 403 raiting, parry 286 rating) My question here being, on the table you say RAT (the total raiting)if I add mine up its 1372 so lets say 1200 in you table. I just dont understand it, you mean that my raiting should be somewhere between the breakdown you show for each? Am I adding it wrong, or am I just completely lost? all I want to know is what the best balance between my avoidance is. Also it is different for each miss cap, we dont have a miss cap right now right, ok so what difference does it make by higher/lower miss caps estimates. Also the DR on dodge is higher than parry but does that still mean I should stack dodge? and completely forget parry? wouldnt gem for it or enchant it but if im at 26% dodge and 19% parry?. But in my case my stats are above my % look like the following 23.32 for dodge and 19.93% for parry. is that balanced enough? also question about block. what block value estimate is good for per say 25 man naxx if Im not stackin for it, and is block raiting something to want or just forget about it? Not sure this is clear so you can send me an email and it'd be greatly appreciated

As I said, I wouldn't worry about the rating ratios, because that's a level of detail that's not really worth worrying about, especially if your gear is constantly in flux.

In your case, with 26% dodge and 19% parry (I'm assuming that's raid-buffed, if not you'll want to repeat this calculation with your raid-buffed stats), you'd calculate the ratio as follows:

(23.32-10) / (19.93-10) = 13.32/9.93 = 1.34

So you're below the ideal 1.88, which means you'll get more avoidance out of a dodge gem than a parry gem at this point.

I can't stress enough that this is really only useful for answering the "what should I gem" question, because gear isn't itemized in nice equal chunks of avoidance. You'll almost never get the choice between two items that are identical except for one having X parry rating and one having X dodge rating. That's a situation where you should really be using a tool like RatingBuster to determine the net change an item gives you.

[theckhd]

Source: Brama Ok, after reading this entire thread, I still feel kinda lost. As a prot warrior my stat line looks something like this: Def Rating = 758 Dodge Rating = 518 25.38% Parry Rating = 309 20.49% I've gemmed with a few of the parry/def gems, because I assumed that the additional parry % would help with threat. My question is, am I in the ballpark for where I want to be as a prot warrior? I see so many tanks in general ignoring dodge/parry and just going for straight +30 stam regardless of the socket color. I've never liked being just a plain old meat shield, and I really want to understand how avoidance/mitigation works so I can be better, and help my fellow guildmates get better too. Any help or a barney style breakdown of how this all works would be greatly appriciated.

I can't answer the "am I in the ballpark" question, as I'm not really sure what benchmarks a warrior aims for. Avoidance-wise, your ratio is 1.466, which means that you'll get more avoidance from a dodge gem than a parry gem (though no threat).

The reason tanks are avoiding avoidance in favor of straight stamina is directly related to the current content. A large portion of the "tank-kill" spike damage in Trial of the Crusader is unavoidable (Gormok's dot/impale, worms' magic damage, Icehowl's melee during a knockdown, stray magic damage / vortex during Twins, Anub's melee during an ice block). As such, your options as a tank basically boil down to:

• Stack avoidance so that you take a lot less damage during the portions of the fight where you're already relatively safe and unlikely to die
• Stack stamina to give your healers a larger health buffer for the intense (and unavoidable) spike damage sections where you are likely to die.

This is why many of us (even people who like avoidance, like myself) have shifted to a full-EH gemming strategy. I was hoping that the changes in Icecrown would reverse this trend, but Icewell Radiance will probably ensure that stamina-gemming is the most effective strategy straight through to Cataclysm.

[Satorri]

As a side note, this thread was aimed at optimizing total avoidance for survival (i.e. highest percentage from available gems/chants).

If you're interested in boosting your threat through avoidance you may be surprised. The haste benefit of Parry is actually disappointing lower than you might hope, which is a little more unremarkable when you're a warrior using a fast weapon (even for a DK it's still a little disappointing with a slow 2h).

In general, between the current incarnation of Shield Spec (tier 1, Prot), and the procs of Revenge, I expect that what gets you the most % avoidance will also get you the most threat benefit.

The specifics of why dodge is better for you right now, are posted above. =)

[Brama]

Source: theckhd I can't answer the "am I in the ballpark" question, as I'm not really sure what benchmarks a warrior aims for. Avoidance-wise, your ratio is 1.466, which means that you'll get more avoidance from a dodge gem than a parry gem (though no threat). The reason tanks are avoiding avoidance in favor of straight stamina is directly related to the current content. A large portion of the "tank-kill" spike damage in Trial of the Crusader is unavoidable (Gormok's dot/impale, worms' magic damage, Icehowl's melee during a knockdown, stray magic damage / vortex during Twins, Anub's melee during an ice block). As such, your options as a tank basically boil down to: Stack avoidance so that you take a lot less damage during the portions of the fight where you're already relatively safe and unlikely to die Stack stamina to give your healers a larger health buffer for the intense (and unavoidable) spike damage sections where you are likely to die. This is why many of us (even people who like avoidance, like myself) have shifted to a full-EH gemming strategy. I was hoping that the changes in Icecrown would reverse this trend, but Icewell Radiance will probably ensure that stamina-gemming is the most effective strategy straight through to Cataclysm.

How did you find my ratio? And sadly, I'll be regemming after the patch downloads. FML.

[Satorri]

The ratio is just your dodge rating divided by your parry rating. If you mouseover the percentages in you character page it'll show the sum for quick access.

The ideal (per this thread) is around 1.85 times more dodge rating than parry rating. If your ratio is higher than that, you'll get more from parry, lower and you'll get more from dodge.

[Brama]

Source: Satorri The ratio is just your dodge rating divided by your parry rating. If you mouseover the percentages in you character page it'll show the sum for quick access. The ideal (per this thread) is around 1.85 times more dodge rating than parry rating. If your ratio is higher than that, you'll get more from parry, lower and you'll get more from dodge.

Thanks! That helped a lot, and gives me something to shoot for.

[Xianth]

Source: Brama Ok, after reading this entire thread, I still feel kinda lost. As a prot warrior my stat line looks something like this: Def Rating = 758 Dodge Rating = 518 25.38% Parry Rating = 309 20.49% I've gemmed with a few of the parry/def gems, because I assumed that the additional parry % would help with threat. My question is, am I in the ballpark for where I want to be as a prot warrior? I see so many tanks in general ignoring dodge/parry and just going for straight +30 stam regardless of the socket color. I've never liked being just a plain old meat shield, and I really want to understand how avoidance/mitigation works so I can be better, and help my fellow guildmates get better too. Any help or a barney style breakdown of how this all works would be greatly appriciated.

If you are wanting to fill a red socket with something that's red and for threat, you're better off going with expertise.

[Brama]

Thanks for all the great advice! It's so great to find some people out there who just want to help each other!

[Best]

Hey there thanks for all the great advice but i have been away from the game for several months... It appears that Block Rating is going the way of the dodo...I have checked out the 232 n 245 tier gear and there is no Block rating on this gear... instead there is Block Value ... does Block Value replace Block Rating? My Def is 565 Dodge is 25.93 n parry is 20.03, Block Rating is 20.57. So do i no longer look for Block Rating but go with Block Value? And could someone please explain this for me. Thanks

[Satorri]

Block Rating has gone away because of a few factors (I'm guessing, no official announcement):
1.) Protadins with Holy Shield in these levels of gear and above are usually passing the threshold where more block % does anything at all. So non-set pieces with it would be a waste for pallies, and undesirable gear is a no-no.

2.) Despite the bumps to the block values, block is still not a *popular* survival tool. So long as that is the case, adding tanking gear with stats that people will not want falls into the same problem: they want the upgrades to be desirable.

Block Value and Rating are the same as ever in how they work, otherwise.