[Síhrtogg]

@ Onedge. The difference is the rework of Shield Block. You no longer block (almost) every unavoided attack like you used to in tBC. Having the old Shield Block 'up' ensured that the incoming attack was always at least reduced by your block value, which could even be considered into your effective health on slow hitting bosses, as the reduction was guaranteed, like armor.
I think stacking block value as a mitigation stat is still very valuable for Paladins, with Holy Shield and Redoubt unchanged. With Redoubt procced, they block every unavoided attack. Otherwise, due to Holy Shield, they still have a far more decent block chance than warriors.
For Warriors, I'm in the opinion block value is now better seen as a near pure threat/dps stat, along expertise and hit.

[GravityDK]

The 'miss' cap has been determined now by Whitetooth, so this OP can be updated. It's 16%.

Source.

[Roana]

Source: GravityDK The 'miss' cap has been determined now by Whitetooth, so this OP can be updated. It's 16%. Source.

I saw that already, and will update it sometime next week (I hope). Would have already done it, but after just having moved and with a conference paper due soon, I haven't had the time.

Right now, the 15% case is close enough for government work. (Though pushing it to 16% still makes a small difference.)

[Orctank]

Ok im lost, those charts might as well be writen in chinese. I do not understand them at all.
I really just have one simple question? You stated at the top of your post that we should try to balance Def and dodge to a ratio of 2:1
So is what your saying is that a toon with 540 Def should have half that amount in Dodge rating 270?

[Roana]

Source: Orctank Ok im lost, those charts might as well be writen in chinese. I do not understand them at all. I really just have one simple question? You stated at the top of your post that we should try to balance Def and dodge to a ratio of 2:1 So is what your saying is that a toon with 540 Def should have half that amount in Dodge rating 270?

With the now determined miss cap of 16%, it's actually more like 1:1 (though a 2:1 ratio is pretty good, too). I do have to get around and update the original post, though the 15% miss chart is reasonably close.

And this is the ratio of defense rating to dodge rating. If you have 540 defense, then you have 332 defense rating to get there. The idea is that both defense rating and doge rating cost the same itemization points, so you can trade them off for one another at roughly equal amounts (assuming the gear is available).

[Lightstrike]

Hi,

I've been following this thread pretty closely, and I'm at a point where I (hope I) understand correctly.

Basically while trying to peak avoidance, we're going for a 1:1 / 2:1 mix between defence and dodge while keeping over the minimum defence barrier.

212 dodge
115 parry
956 def
=1283 pts

My Parry comes from gear, but is still involved in the budget, so therefore if I need 689 of that defence rating for uncrittable on a typical boss. I have 267 Defence rating to play with?

I only have 155 defence rating from gems though, so would this mean that reverting my JC epic gems from defence back to dodge would be a good move?
Or is it better for me, as a paladin, to keep my defence rating gems so despite the slight overall loss I can convert dodge into some of that elusive block %?

Or have I made some miscalculations here?

Danny.

[Roana]

Source: Lightstrike I only have 155 defence rating from gems though, so would this mean that reverting my JC epic gems from defence back to dodge would be a good move?

It probably is not worth the effort. The optimal avoidance level for that many rating points is less than a percent compared to what you have now, even with a lower parry value.

If you were to move all defense rating points to dodge rating in your example, you'd gain about .52% avoidance for your efforts, and, as you noted, you'd lose out on a far bit of block chance. The curve is extremely flat once you get even a bit away from the extreme "only dodge" or "only parry" points. One of the bigger points I'm trying to make is that it is really, really hard to screw up your avoidance unless you do silly stuff like gemming lots and lots of parry.

[Steelbones86]

hmmmm.. i checked this thread to make sure i wasn't making a mistake on my sets, I've had a DK with dodge and parry gems in place tell me "im at the dodge cap of 28%, so i have to stack parry" and "if your dodge is twice the rating of your parry, parry is more ffective"

well my dodge rating is 506 with a total of (before diminish) 26.09%
and my parry rating is 279 with a total of(before diminish) 19.48%
and my defense rating is 710

seeing as i am approaching both 28% dodge, and double the value of my parry skill, i almost considered parry gems as i have always been taught to stick to 540 no matter what.

this thread is telling me to stack defense rating in its place, as i am not at the 2:1 ratio of defense to dodge, and if anything, to gem for defense if i have extremely high dodge.

correct me as much as possible please! TY TY

edit: ive always tried to keep myself at a minimum of 30k health unbuffed, its really hard to weigh stam against these raw avoidance stats, for example i could drop my JC gems with 41 stam for the 27 dodge or 27 DR gems, and ditch all my solid sky sapphires for 16 dodge rubies.
this would bring me down to the area of 28k unbuffed but give me easily another 100ish dodge and or defense rating.
for tanking ulduar where im 40k fully buffed and taking 25k dmg per melee swing from most the bosses... im not sure if its wise to do so.

[Steelbones86]

nobody replies to this thread anymore T_T

[Lavahon]

So I hit 80 this past Tuesday (on my paladin). I'm slightly overcapped on defense (549 defense + some slack rating). From what I've read i should generally try to avoid parry rating once capped/overcapped on defense, and instead work up my defense/dodge while I work on stamina (a problem all new 80 tanks have).
My question is, given the choice between two items with the identical stats, yet one provides defense rating on the other dodge rating, which should I choose if I'm over 540 defense?
If the decision is made based on rating-to-rating ratios (x def-rating over y dodge rating for example), how do I know which one would benefit me more?
Finally, what are the priorities for a fresh 80 tank to gear up for naxx after 1) get defense capped and 23k unbuffed health (obviously not main-tanking most boss fights), 2) beef up health and armor where possible and look for gear to improve defense/dodge.

[Satorri]

Steel, I'm not entirely where that "cap" is coming from, though personally, at that level, I'd be less concerned with where you're stacking from, and simply dealing with what items you have available to you. Seeing as how I'm about at the same ratio/avoidance, I have not seen Parry giving more avoidance still. When I load in my avoidance trinkets my dodge can easily bump over 30% without apparent deficient value next to parry. Out of curiosity, what spec are you running?

And be patient, someone not reply in a few hours does not constitute no response.

[Doombringer]

I'm wondering if since the changes to Dodge Rating in 3.2

3.2 Patch note link
WoW -> Patch Notes -> Current Patch Notes

Dodge Rating: The amount of dodge rating required per percentage of dodge has been increased by 15%. This is before diminishing returns. Combined with other changes, this makes dodge rating and parry rating equally potent before diminishing returns apply.

When it comes to Gems, should you Now go for All Defense gems rather than trying to maintain the 3:2 ratio

[Satorri]

Defense gets you fine avoidance, but pure stats still get you a bit more in total, and more importantly (to me) they get you stats that can buff your other mechanics if you have them (proc Revenge/Rune Strike, proc rage/mana gains from dodge/parry, etc).

The new point-pushing golden rule for maximizing avoidance from your gear:
From static Def rating (there's a post that lists the optimal def points to start from, but chances are you can stick with whatever you have), the Dodge : Parry ratio you want is about 1.85 : 1. They have the same exchange for rating points at base, but Parry's cap for diminishing is still only a bit more than half that of dodge so dodge still gets slightly better returns unless your dodge rating is more than 1.85 times larger than you Parry rating.

[GravityDK]

I think it's parry percentage, actually, Satorri.
You want dodge% : parry% after non-DR items removed like talents to be 1.875:1.0

[Satorri]

With the base exchange being the same, I think the ratios actually work out to be the same, but I'm only parroting math done in a separate thread buried somewhere below in the forum. =)

[Agarwaen3]

Shouldn't we instead factor dodge and parry from defense into the formula? (due to defense giving dodge and parry before the DR) That would skew the balance towards dodge quite a bit

[Satorri]

No, Defense increases Dodge and Parry directly, but also equally. Dodge and Parry ratings follow their own diminishing contribution, defense doesn't really change that. In short it would take an awful lot of Defense to change the curve on dodge and parry to something noticeable, and really it only moves them both the same along the same (proportional) curves.

[bloodbrother]

Here's a easier way to figure out your ratio

• At low gear levels ( defense rating + dodge rating + parry rating
• At higher gear levels (defense + dodge + parry > 1150 rating), gear so that your post-DR dodge and parry percentages come out as close to a 1.88:1 ratio as possible. In other words:
  (character_sheet_dodge_% - 11.65) / (character_sheet_parry_% - 10) = 1.88

You want a 1.88:1 ratio to be exact according to Honor's Code: [Patch 3.2] Avoidance Nerf


this is not my work and was all done by Honors code

[Viserok]

ok so im sorta new to DK tanking. got most of my gear from heroic badge farming.

So most of this is Greek to me but I'll give my avoidance stats to see if im doing something wrong.

i got 554 defense, 27.28 dodge, 18.21 Parry with 32.8k hp unbuffed. I'm i doing something wrong with my gear? im i over stacked with dodge too much or is it better that i have way more dodge then Parry? im hopeless when it comes to understanding these charts and numbers =p

[Satorri]

You're fine Viserok. As a DK, if you want to socket for avoidance, focus on Dodge rating to get the best return.

Don't avoid gear because it has parry rating, and don't worry about what %'s you end up at. =) It'll all work out just fine.