[Ciderhelm]

10-14 Ferocity -- Bear Form (10)
15-16 Thick Hide (2/3) -- Aquatic Form (16)
17-19 Feral Instinct
20-21 Feral Swiftness -- Cat Form (20)
22-24 Sharpened Claws
25-27 Predatory Strikes
28-29 Primal Fury
30-30 Faerie Fire (Feral) -- Travel Form (30)
31-32 Savage Fury
33-35 Furor (3/5)

36-36 Respec to this build.
37-37 Omen of Clarity
38-39 Primal Fury


Thick Hide over Brutal Impact?
This talent gets considerably more mileage than either Brutal Impact or Feral Instinct before Cat Form at 20. I cut it short in favor of Feral Instinct so that it would be maxed when I gained the form. Brutal Impact becomes very valuable at level 36 when Pounce is trained; however, it's dead weight until that point.

Feral Charge Missing?
This talent is conveniently available the moment you start using Cat Form, which virtually eliminates it's usefulness while leveling. It's a great talent, but this talent point is my disagreement with most leveling guides -- it's not remotely necessary at level 20. Pick the talent up once you find yourself in Bear form the majority of the time.

Why Not Furor, Naturalist, Omen of Clarity earlier?
Prior to level 36 when Pounce is trained, Claw is the primary ability and having Faerie Fire (Feral) available is a huge bonus for grinding speed. Mid Feral sports: 6% Crit, 30+ Attack Power, Primal Fury (Combo Points from Crits), 20% Claw and Rake damage, and Faerie Fire (Feral). These talents outweigh the shapeshifting bonus, 10% damage bonus, and Omen of Clarity ability for grinding speed. However, ability rotations significantly change at level 36, making a respec in favor of Omen of Clarity worthwhile.



Ability Usage While Leveling (Assuming Single Target Opponent)
1-9: Open with Wrath, Moonfire. Spam Wrath to kill.

10-15: Open with Wrath, Moonfire, Bear Form. Spam Maul to kill. If low on Mana, do not open with Wrath, just use Moonfire.

16-17: Open with Wrath, Moonfire, Bear Form. Spam Swipe to kill. If low on Mana, do not open with Wrath, just use Moonfire.

18-19: Open with Wrath, Faerie Fire, Bear Form. Spam Maul to kill. If low on Mana, do not open with Wrath, just use Moonfire.

20-21: Spam Claw to kill. If low on Health, shapeshift and Regrowth after target is dead.

22-23: Open with Prowl, Shred. Spam Claw to kill. If low on Health, shapeshift and Healing Touch after target is dead. Use Rip if you have 3 or more combo points and target health is 50% or higher.

24-29: Open with Prowl, Shred, Rake. Spam Claw to kill. Use Tiger's Fury after the opening sequence if the target has more than 50% health remaining. If low on Health, shapeshift and Healing Touch after target is dead. Use Rip if you have 3 or more combo points and target health is 50% or higher.

30-31: Open with Faerie Fire (Feral). Spam Claw to kill. If low on Health, shapeshift and Healing Touch after target is dead. Use Rip if you have 3 or more combo points and target health is 50% or higher.

32-33: Open with Faerie Fire (Feral). Spam Claw to kill. If low on Health, shapeshift and Healing Touch after target is dead. Use Ferocious Bite at 5 combo points or at 20%.

34-35: Open with Faerie Fire (Feral), Rake. Spam Claw to kill. If low on Health, shapeshift and Healing Touch after target is dead. Use Ferocious Bite at 5 combo points or at 20%.


Weapon Trainer Locations
Alliance Weapon Trainer Locations

Fist Weapons    - Darnassus, Ironforge
Maces           - Exodar, Ironforge

Alliance Weapon Trainers

Darnassus       - Ilyenia Moonfire at the Warrior's Terrace
Exodar          - Handiir at the Traders Tier
Ironforge       - Bixi Wobblebonk and Bulwyf Stonehand at the Military Ward

Horde Weapon Trainer Locations

Daggers         - Eversong Woods, Orgrimmar, Silvermoon, Undercity
Fist Weapons    - Orgrimmar
Maces           - Thunder Bluff

Horde Weapon Trainers

Eversong Woods  - Duelist Larenis at Falconwing Square
Orgrimmar       - Hanashi and Sayoc at Valley of Honor in 'Arms of Legend' shop
Silvermoon      - Ileda at Farstriders Square
Thunder Bluff   - Ansekhwa at Lower Rise
Undercity       - Archibald at the War Quarter

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By Level (Work In Progress, Started Late)
Level 33
Talent Point:
View Build:


Level 34
Talent Point:
View Build:

Rotation Change? YES (Rake Added)
Rotation: Open with Faerie Fire (Feral), Rake. Spam Claw to kill. If low on Health, shapeshift and Healing Touch after target is dead. Use Ferocious Bite at 5 combo points or at 20%.

Druid Trainer Abilities:
Balance: Moonfire (6), Starfire (3), Thorns (4)
Feral Combat: Maul (4), Rake (2), Swipe (3)
Restoration: Rejuvenation (6)

Total Cost: 6 Gold 65 Silver
Cost Per Skill: 95 Silver


Level 35
Talent Point:
View Build:

Level 36
Talent Point:
View Build:

Rotation Change? YES (Pounce Added)
Rotation: Open with Prowl, Pounce, Shred, Shred. Spam Claw to kill. If low on Health, shapeshift and Healing Touch after target is dead. Use Ferocious Bite at 5 combo points or at 20%; if target is at 60% or more remaining Health after Shred opening, use Rip, then Tiger's Fury instead of Ferocious Bite.

Druid Trainer Abilities:
Balance: None
Feral Combat: Frenzied Regeneration (1), Pounce (1), Rip (3), Tiger's Fury (2)
Restoration: Rejuvenation (6)

Total Cost: 4 Gold 67 Silver 50 Copper
Cost Per Skill: 93 Silver 50 Copper

[Subodhi]

I'm not quite sure I agree with your Thick Hide reasoning... At that gear level you have a tiny amount of armor... a 10% boost just doesn't seem worth it, and it doesn't help you kill any faster (and lets face it, killing in bear form is slow enough as it is). Taking a bit more damage as a druid while grinding mobs is almost a non issue since you can heal in between fights with almost no down time.

I think Ferocity to Furor might be better than what you have posted though I've never done it personally (hindsight is 20/20, etc.). I've always gone down the resto track for OOC. Furor 5/5 will give you 10 energy every pull assuming you're opening with Wrath/Moonfire and shifting into bear. It takes you 2 mauls to get that kind of energy savings with Ferocity alone.

Once I hit 21, I respec into Feral Swiftness giving me a 30% boost to run speed while outdoors and in cat form. I've never really been 100% sold on the fact that this talent improves exp rate as much as people say (I always forget to load an exp rate tracker to actually test this out), but I'll give them the benefit of the doubt. Besides, having experienced mount speed, I just hate running slow. I do enjoy this speed boost (relative to other classes) for about 10 levels until I get Travel Form.

Cat form at level 20 is pretty simple like you mention. I start out with Claw->Rip and as the levels fly by I start adding Shred and Ravage into the mix. However it isn't until I learn pounce (level 36) and have 2 points in Shredding Attacks (Shred/Lacerate cost reduction) that I can start using the Pounce->Shred(x2)->Rip opener. You also have chances for OOC procs assuming the talent progression below.

Mangle is the next huge DPS boost at level 50. It is absolutely worth another respec. I modify my opener to Pounce->Mangle->Shred->Rip from here on out (insert FFF after shred while you're waiting for the energy tick once you get it).

This is the track I'd use if I was doing it all over again:

10-14: Ferocity 5/5
15-19: Furor 5/5
20: Naturalist 1/5

21: Respec to Feral Swiftness
22-26: Furor 5/5
27-31: Naturalist 5/5
32: Omen of Clarity
33-35: Sharpened Claws 3/3
36-37: Shredding Attacks 2/2
38-39: Primal Fury 2/2
40-42: Predatory Strikes 3/3
43: Faerie Fire (Feral)
44-45: Savage Fury 2/2
46-49: Heart of the Wild 4/5

50: Respec to Mangle
51-55: Furor 5/5
56-60: Naturalist 5/5
61: Omen of Clarity

BTW, I think you're really missing out by not having OOC (I'm a huge fan)... You should check it out.

[Alent]

Tiger's fury is actually quite worth it at lower levels.

[Ciderhelm]

Source: Subodhi I'm not quite sure I agree with your Thick Hide reasoning... At that gear level you have a tiny amount of armor... a 10% boost just doesn't seem worth it, and it doesn't help you kill any faster (and lets face it, killing in bear form is slow enough as it is). Taking a bit more damage as a druid while grinding mobs is almost a non issue since you can heal in between fights with almost no down time. I think Ferocity to Furor might be better than what you have posted though I've never done it personally (hindsight is 20/20, etc.). I've always gone down the resto track for OOC. Furor 5/5 will give you 10 energy every pull assuming you're opening with Wrath/Moonfire and shifting into bear. It takes you 2 mauls to get that kind of energy savings with Ferocity alone.

I will respectfully disagree with two of your points and offer an alternative.

Without quoting the rest of your post, I disagree with getting Brutal Impact at level 21, since you won't need it until level 36. Armor does provide a tangible benefit, even if it's small, Brutal Impact does not.

I also disagree with bee-lining for Omen of Clarity after respecing at 21. To gain shapeshifting Energy, 10% damage and Omen of Clarity, here's what you give up:
6% Crit
31-46 Attack Power
Primal Fury (Combo Points from Crits)
20% Damage on Claw and Rake
Faerie Fire (Feral)

I don't believe those tradeoffs are worthwhile to make given the talents affect abilities that remain core until level 36. Claw, Rake, and Faerie Fire (Feral) have done wonders for my grinding efficiency; point for point, there's just too much value in mid-Feral before Pounce becomes available.

However, what I'm leaning towards is respecing at level 36 to grain Brutal Impact and Shredding Attacks. By shifting talents, you could have Omen of Clarity at 37 and keep it all the way until 50. I believe that best suits leveling speed by keeping the best talents for a given level available at those levels.

[Norrath]

Cider, while Cat Form doesn't have the same requirement for Shapeshifting that Bear Form does, you can still do it for Energy. (This is called powershifting.) Done right, you get quite a bit of Energy, even counting the loss of the Energy tick that has to restart when you shift out and the loss of the residual Energy (assuming it's not above a tick).

Done right, it makes the OoC route somewhat easier, but of course, if you're killing things fast, it's not necessary.

[Ciderhelm]

Source: Norrath Cider, while Cat Form doesn't have the same requirement for Shapeshifting that Bear Form does, you can still do it for Energy. (This is called powershifting.) Done right, you get quite a bit of Energy, even counting the loss of the Energy tick that has to restart when you shift out and the loss of the residual Energy (assuming it's not above a tick). Done right, it makes the OoC route somewhat easier, but of course, if you're killing things fast, it's not necessary.

That's very good info to know. It's not something that would affect the leveling speed atm, since mobs are dying very quickly, and whatever I would give up to gain Furor is worth more to me.

I'll be picking up 5/5 Furor at 36, and will have OoC by 42. I'm curious if Furor will be particularly helpful in the 36-49 gauntlet, if Pounce-Shred-Shred deals as much damage as others suggest. Will give it a try!

Edit: Amending the previously planned build for 36, I can go this route, which would allow OoC at 37, then I'd jump back to Primal Fury.

[Ciderhelm]

Added in a start to a level-by-level categorization. Also adjusted the talent build for 33-35 to be Furor (3/5) before respec.

[Subodhi]

Hmm! Yeah, I think you're right.

I logged some combat briefly (small sample sizes ~30 non-crit claws) with a 36 druid I had sitting around and saw a pretty significant damage increase per claw w/ savage fury & FFF compared to just Naturalist.

I think I was seeing on average a 15 point difference between the SF and naturalist claws (87 vs. 72). I think most fights are about 5-6 claws (super un-logged guesstimate). Assuming the druid gets 1 OOC proc per fight (somewhat wishful thinking I suppose ). 5 sf/fff claws is 435 damage, w/o being dependant on a proc. 6 nat/ooc is 432 damage.

FFF also seemed to equal naturalist's boost to white damage.

The 6% crit + 47 ap makes the feral track that much better as well.

Honestly, I was surprised how little Naturalist seemed to effect damage in general. I may have some faulty assumptions regarding Naturalist, or this could be a result of the small data set.

[Kazeyonoma]

Thanks Cider, this'll help me with my dr00d, lawlz

[Lilie]

Very cool to read your process...

[Subodhi]

Could you explain your reasoning behind why Furor/Nat/OOC becomes better than 6% crit, 51 AP, Primal Fury, +20% claw/rake, and FF(F) once you get the Pounce/Shred(x2) opener?

[Ciderhelm]

Source: Subodhi Could you explain your reasoning behind why Furor/Nat/OOC becomes better than 6% crit, 51 AP, Primal Fury, +20% claw/rake, and FF(F) once you get the Pounce/Shred(x2) opener?

I don't know it for sure, but I'm willing to spend the money testing both routes. I've been working on the site over the weekend so I'm still at level 35.

The reason I'm willing to try it is this:
-20% Claw loses it's value if I'm taking out at least half the mob's health bar with Shred;
-Faerie Fire (Feral) is something I've used as an opener. Again, if I'm taking out half the mob's health bar with Shred, that means I can apply FF(F) only after that, since I still need to be stealthed for Pounce on the opener;
-6% Crit is still in the build, Primal Fury gets in the build before grinding through 40.

[Subodhi]

Ah. I'm definitely interested in what you come up with.

Perhaps another thing to consider is that if you stay in the feral track you would be eligible for Heart of the Wild at this point and about 5 levels from Leader of the Pack.

[Norrath]

Heart of the Wild's big attraction is the +10% AP -- which +10% damage trumps.

OoC is great for getting off an extra Shred while the mob is still suffering Pounce.

[Subodhi]

I've been thinking about that respec at 36...

By respeccing at 36, you lose all your melee/claw boosts, and you don't have enough points for OOC until 37, which would fill the vacancy left by the claw boosts. Even though the new Pounce/Shred(x2) opener will take most mobs down to 50-60%,you still have 50-60% to dig through after that.

Another inefficiency to me is in those last 3 points for Furor before the respec. Until you get Furor 5/5, I just don't think its worth trying to powershift. What happens when you "miss" your energy boost? Furthermore, I can see the use of powershifting techniques in group situations where you're in a melee DPS role, but is it really a viable solo technique?

I DO like Furor when I'm forced to pop out and heal whether mid-fight or even in between pulls (it gets me back in the fight about 4 seconds faster), but I don't think it's something that really gets used on every fight.

What would you say about delaying the respec one level and replacing Furor so you can prepare for Pounce at 36... This way, you keep your melee and Claw boosts, can still take advantage of the new opener at 36, and then further improve it at 37 with OOC.

30: Faerie Fire (Feral)
31-32: Savage Fury 2/2
33-34: Shredding Attacks 2/2
35-36: Brutal Impact 2/2
37: Respec to OOC/Shredding Attacks

[Ciderhelm]

Subodhi, yes. The level 36 respec was terrible for the entirety of the level. Furor also was not worth it. Your concerns are dead-on.

[Nayre]

Also, powershifting got kind'a nerfed with this patch, due to the MP5 change. (For instance, on my druid at 33 my MP5 dropped by 2/3)

[ttocs]

Heh, Cider during that SM run:

"this talent build... so bad"

With that said, he was out-DPSing me (a rouge that was 39 at the time he was 36), by about 20 or so DPS, I think. 60 to his 80. Though I think recount was somewhat messed up. This was with two green level 15-ish swords, MH being 13.8DPS and OH being like 8DPS or so.

I'm wondering if it was more worth it to stay daggers, since the mobs dropped so fast, I couldn't take advantage of a full combat swords build.

[Ciderhelm]

Need to finish up the site to really get back in the swing of things. Here's my observation after taking more time at Feral tanking:

You can see the train wreck coming but you can't do anything about it. There's no shield block to save you from those last trash mobs alive after your party has wiped. There's no Mocking Blow when you're silenced or when your other abilities are on cooldown. There's no Last Stand or Shield Wall.

If you see yourself trending towards death, you die.

This is a little bit exaggerated as I'm still able to pop off a heal at my level in a really dire situation, and I know there are special macros at later levels, but that's my current feeling on it.

[Arrivan]

Source: ttocs Heh, Cider during that SM run: "this talent build... so bad" With that said, he was out-DPSing me (a rouge that was 39 at the time he was 36), by about 20 or so DPS, I think. 60 to his 80. Though I think recount was somewhat messed up. This was with two green level 15-ish swords, MH being 13.8DPS and OH being like 8DPS or so. I'm wondering if it was more worth it to stay daggers, since the mobs dropped so fast, I couldn't take advantage of a full combat swords build.

Combat swords is definately worth sticking with. By level 50 I found that mobs wouldn't die in three or four hits as they used to in the 30s with a dagger, so I decided sustained DPS > burst DPS. My rogue is still combat swords and will be all the way through to 70 (level 64 now). The only problem is at my level swords are quite hard to come by

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