[Crimsonstorm]

400+ innate threat!??!?

Are you kidding me?

[Norrath]

Seems like a good buff to me. What's wrong with 400+ innate threat on our 41-point talent?

[Kazeyonoma]

we'll see if it stays this way.

[Crimsonstorm]

If it does stay at 400+ threat, I think its more threat than revenge!

Imaigne a SS/Dev/Dev/Dev cycle. If youre devastating that often, does a slow weapon become good? (Even in high rage situations...since theyre already good in rage starved situations)

[Satrina]

I'm pretty much expecting that they'll leave the Sunder link, and make some sort of change on the innate value of Devastate. Even if they left it at Sunder + 1/2 damage it would own.

[Kazeyonoma]

exactly,

and as satrina has stated on the US forums. I wouldn't remove revenge. Its the most rage efficient skill we have, and its on a cd. why not toss it up, it normally generates more threat than Dev anyways, and it has equal chance to crit as dev. I think SS/Revenge/Dev/Dev will become the norm, and with 50+ rage, queue HS still.

[Crimsonstorm]

It wouldnt remove revenge because Revenge + 1/2 a heroic strike > Devastate

Revenge saves 7 rage which is about 1/2 the cost of a heroic strike, talented, with a fast weapon, counting the rage loss of not getting it off the swing.

[Crimsonstorm]

THough, for a low skilled tnak, it could remove revenge and their guild might not notice :P

[Kazeyonoma]

true =x

[Xal]

Source: Kazeyonoma exactly, and as satrina has stated on the US forums. I wouldn't remove revenge. Its the most rage efficient skill we have, and its on a cd. why not toss it up, it normally generates more threat than Dev anyways, and it has equal chance to crit as dev. I think SS/Revenge/Dev/Dev will become the norm, and with 50+ rage, queue HS still.

Actually I don't think many people have run the math on this yet. I did, and this is what I got:

http://forums.worldofwarcraft.com/th...sid=1&pageNo=6

Basic summary - most people should replace revenge with devastate for overall agro generation around the time they reach ~205 ave damage with their weapon. You will generate more agro this way than using revenge and HS.

Also, revenge will indeed generate less threat than devastate after the patch if the pattern Satrina has posted holds out, so infinite rage situations will definately call for replacing revenge and devastate. Revenge will be relagated to the role sunder armor had before the patch in terms of a "low rage situation" tool.

[Arrowson]

im getting the feeling this is what they intended in the first place, just some coder didn't understand the what exactly they were going for and screwed it up a bit

[Belak]

I DEFINITELY like this change and am looking forward to improved aggro generation from it.

However...

What will this do when a prot warrior has to dps? Will devastate spam be an option anymore?

I sure wish they'd do something like making devastate's threat bonus only apply in defensive stance. Seems like it works for the ferals...

[Kazeyonoma]

Hrm, interesting Xal. I can see how it can become awesome at that point, especially after being reduced to 9 rage.

I guess thar be a change in threat rotation if this holds up.

[Wartorn]

Or make Revenge the Overpower of Def stance. Hard to pass up on a cheap high threat skill you can't miss with.

[phaze]

Source: Jarhead Is the addon Satrina used available to others for more of this type of testing? Did you use any addon for your testing, Kaz, or just parse the combatlog afterwards? I'm trying to decide if I were to do some testing, would I need any particular mod, or would something like DamagMeters be ok to give a quick and dirty ingame number, with manual combatlog parsing afterwards for specifics?

If you're ok with monitoring the control character's actions, then any combat meter will work great for quickly totalling damage done. Just have to track total damage prior to aggro gain, and the following attack that gains aggro.

Satrina's setup is if you'd prefer to let the mod handle the test (auto-stopping recording on NPC's target switch). Results should be valid either way. =)

On the topic of innate threat value: I also suspect that Devastate's old innate threat may not make it off the PTR, if the ability is also providing Sunder's threat. 'Sunder + damage/2' threat seems very likely to me for a solid boost that doesn't trivialize Revenge (which they recently buffed to start with).

[Lavina]

Very interesting results from the PTR, Satrina. If these changes persist, they will be more than a viable alternative to the current ruleset for tanks and even more so for warriors in offtank positions. We can only hope that Shield Slam and Revenge will not be overlooked by Blizzard, though I trust Revenge will still be a viable threat option for the non-protection specced warrior.

Like above posters, I am also interested in seeing the results beyond five sunders, though I expect them to stay high as currently with Sunder Armor.

I am pleased to see that additional Sunders make Devastate generate more threat, as was originally intended with 2.0. It soothes ye olde numbercrunchers heart.

Some minor notes that may help you in your research:

1) If you run through a target, face it directly, then rotate 90 degrees to one side, you will be able to spam special abilities without provoking an auto-attack

2) To confirm your expectations of Devastate initiating two separate effects, you can use a Rogues Expose Armor to see whether the Sunder Armor effect gets blocked, or if the entire Devastate + Sunder Armor becomes blocked. (Expose Armor still gives a "A more power effect is already in place error message" on Live at 70)

Good luck!

[Satrina]

If you run through a target, face it directly, then rotate 90 degrees to one side, you will be able to spam special abilities without provoking an auto-attack

Yeah, I'm not very adept at that apperently haha. I've got it down with using a mouseover macro and keeping myself turned most of the way to begin with.

2) To confirm your expectations of Devastate initiating two separate effects, you can use a Rogues Expose Armor to see whether the Sunder Armor effect gets blocked, or if the entire Devastate + Sunder Armor becomes blocked. (Expose Armor still gives a "A more power effect is already in place error message" on Live at 70)

Oh, good call!

[Norrath]

You can also use that to test whether or not the SA debuff is what provides the threat. Simply taunt the mob after the rogue has applied Expose Armor, and you'll equalize the threat between you.

Of course you'll still need to know the amount of threat you have.

[DaddyGamer]

Thnxs for fixing these things for us Satrina!!!

I would have mumbled in solitude about nerf of prot warriors endlesly. These things help the whole warrior community. Maybe you should charge 2% of all epic drops? =D

[songster]

Source: Norrath You can also use that to test whether or not the SA debuff is what provides the threat. Simply taunt the mob after the rogue has applied Expose Armor, and you'll equalize the threat between you. Of course you'll still need to know the amount of threat you have.

Easier way - have the rogue apply the Expose and vanish. The debuff stays up, you can then proximity aggro and start from a clean zero-threat slate.