[Fenier]

So I've been running Naxx a few months now. I tank Hatefuls, it's what I do.

Going through my logs however, pointed out an interesting trend. We all know that Patchwerk 25 ideally uses 3 tanks, and you want the better two geared tanks taking Hatefuls.

It seems however, based on over 10 logs of data, that the person second on the threat list is going to take roughly twice the number of swings as the person 3rd on the list.

Last Nights parse I was #2 all fight and took 180 swings (some where dodged, etc, but he swung at me) and the #3 tank only took 60.

Given this I would think the best tanking setup would be to have the 3rd best Geared tank actually Tank Patchwerk, the Best Geared Tank sit at #2 on the aggro list and the second Geared best tank strive to stay at #3.

[Dragaan]

It's based on hp.

[uglybbtoo]

Or do what happens in most pugs .. most of the melee dps dont know to kick the stam buffs let them eat the 3rd hateful strike and die one by one. You and the range kill him rez the dead collect loot and move on.

[Nytemayr]

Generally, you want your melee DPS to jump into the slime and lower their HP. After that, it's the healer's fault for healing them back up to full when their concentration should be on the tanks.

[bashef]

Generally, you want your melee DPS to jump into the slime and lower their HP. After that, it's the healer's fault for healing them back up to full when their concentration should be on the tanks.

most of the melee dps dont know to kick the stam buffs let them eat the 3rd hateful strike and die one by one

I have absolutely no idea why these myths persist what? 10 months after people stepped into Naxxramas.

On 25 man, Patchwerk's hateful strike will hit whichever of second or third on his threat list has the more health at that time. Melee dps could all have 1,000,000 hp and so long as they never passed the second offtank's threat they wouldn't ever be targeted. This shouldn't happen because when a tank receives a Hateful Strike they get a threat boost (to counter the fact that most tanks will do more threat if they're actually being hit). Don't jump in the slime. Don't force your shaman to not use chain heal (it's incredibly efficient here so long as you don't have dps jumping in the slime so they're on low health and the chain bounces to them).

Also, assuming there aren't massive gear disparities you don't necessarily want your best geared tank taking hatefuls. Shield tanks, especially Paladins, will take substantially less damage main tanking Patchwerk because he swings very very fast but not so hard, so stacking block is a legitimate way to reduce masses of damage. Druids and deathknights make for slightly better offtanks, although anyone is fine - if your healers are struggling, have your offtanks stack avoidance instead of health once you can eat two in a row raid buffed (this is why pre-3.1 Deathknights were ridiculously good offtanks because of their insane avoidance).

[Dragaan]

I always thought it was 2-4.

And pre-3.2 DKs made good hateful tanks mainly because they had insane EH.

[Akeber]

Source: bashef On 25 man, Patchwerk's hateful strike will hit whichever of second or third on his threat list has the more health at that time. Melee dps could all have 1,000,000 hp and so long as they never passed the second offtank's threat they wouldn't ever be targeted.

1000x this^

I can't even begin to count the number of times I've argued with pugs that were telling melee to click off fort, step in lime, do a little dance etc etc., that none of it was necessary. All the melee have to do is stay back out of melee range for 10-15 seconds until threat is established on all three tanks, and then stay below all three on omen. Do they listen? Hell no. Then they wonder why all the melee are dead and we end up with 3 tanks plus all the ranged DPS and healers finishing him off. /facepalm

[uglybbtoo]

See alot of us believe elitist jerks and quote there answer as they tested for hours. But we still have various views still persisting is it 3 or 4 on agro table?

Answer I dont really care but its not hard to be safe :-)

/QUOTE

The amount of misinformation surrounding hateful strike is amazing, even after 30+ months of original Naxx release.

There are only three viable targets for hateful strike, and these are the three people 2nd, 3rd, and 4th on his aggro list within melee range. Hateful strike will hit the highest HP person out of those 3. Additionally, hateful strike will add threat to the target it hits, which helps keep these tanks on that hateful strike list. This is the reason where if your 3 hateful tanks are low hp, he would still hateful one of them and kill them, disregarding the fact that there were melee dps with higher HP.

/UNQUOTE

Given 2 hateful tanks ahead of you as a melee in 4th your healers would have to be terribad to not have one of them fully healed.

So what I suggest incase it is 4 is look at the 2 hateful tanks is you HP higher than either of those if so lose stam buffs so you are under. This used to be very easy for dps DK's because they had such high HP which prob isn't the case anymore (nerf nerf).

Would I stand everyone in the slim .... no.

At the end of the day who really cares its naxx.

[Anisah]

Source: Akeber 1000x this^ I can't even begin to count the number of times I've argued with pugs that were telling melee to click off fort, step in lime, do a little dance etc etc., that none of it was necessary. All the melee have to do is stay back out of melee range for 10-15 seconds until threat is established on all three tanks, and then stay below all three on omen. Do they listen? Hell no. Then they wonder why all the melee are dead and we end up with 3 tanks plus all the ranged DPS and healers finishing him off. /facepalm

That is because when Naxx originally reopened it was HP based. People don't tend to keep up with changes in dynamics like this, especially alot of the people you pick up in LFG.

In anycase I have seen the same happen with over zealous melee which is why my pre fight speech ends with, "If you want to attack right off the bat I'm prefectly fine with you inspecting the floor for this fight."

[Nytemayr]

I'm not disagreeing with the theory of aggro-based hatefuls. But I have seen Melee DPS die out of no where while a tank's stuck at 30% of his HP. And not just one, but two or 3 Melee will die.

[phaze]

Source: uglybbtoo So what I suggest incase it is 4

It isn't.

Source: Nytemayr I'm not disagreeing with the theory of aggro-based hatefuls. But I have seen Melee DPS die out of no where while a tank's stuck at 30% of his HP. And not just one, but two or 3 Melee will die.

Happens one of two ways:
1) a tank died. Now you have a melee in the HS list.
2) a melee DPS generated too much threat. Now you have a melee in the HS list.

[uglybbtoo]

Not going to get invloved in the argument if it's 3 or 4 ... takes to much setup to test and frankly I dont care.

Seen good arguments both ways .... You believe its 3 thats fine stick to it.

There are issues as most are relying on OMEN or such and how do we even know that it has got the threat table accurate and it goes on and on and on.

Assuming a normal raid now 3 tanks will have the highest HP by far esp since pally tanks bosanc now buffs stam as well and DK's HP is nerfed. That was the usual HP concern (which may or may not exist) 3rd tank a pally with say 26-27K HP (quiet normal) and a DK dps at 28-29K HP.

On our raids the 2nd strike tank barely gets hit because the healers are OP in this old content.

[Akeber]

Source: uglybbtoo Assuming a normal raid now 3 tanks will have the highest HP by far esp since pally tanks bosanc now buffs stam as well

The health buff that sanc gives is 10% stam only and does not stack wtih kings. The change was made so prot pallies, who need sanc to keep up mana, would not have to lose as much when choosing sanc over kings in five or ten mans where they might be the only pally. Still lose the 10% to other stats by choosing sanc though.

[uglybbtoo]

Yes I know and when you are the only pally in the raid and running OT it makes huge difference now which is what I was saying. If I am chosing it then I am not worried about my stats I am worried about mana and the damage redux is nice.