Is Gear Score really that important? - Page 2

**Squirrelnut** · #21 10-09-2009, 11:56 AM

Source: Maros_vek
Actually, my point exactly. His gear only means take a second look. It is his experience that slows me down. Look at your record, Squirrelnut, obviously you have worked at being an uber tank (btw.. kudo's on that record, best raid clear's I've ever seen on any toon, looks like only thing you skipped was Algalon! Wow!). You didn't just jump from being a 5 man heroic tank into trying to tank end game without working for it. You built a skill (and gear) set by working your butt off. (too bad you are a hordie!!! lol)

I'm just saying he either needs to prove experience from another toon, or put in his dues before I let him wipe my raid, especially when we currently have no problem finding tanks.

True but I hate leveling so don't have many alts. Some people are altaholics such as one of our druid healers that came from a paladin healer main in another guild. He rolled into Ulduar25 Yogg after recently hitting 80 with decent blues and boe epics and almost topped the healing charts with virtually no experience showing up on his char.

Off topic, my guild is retarded and doesn't care about hardmodes much

= no algalon and me attempting to get our yogg+1 kill together for MONTHS now with that as my only achiev left for a faster proto... some day

**Khue** · #22 10-09-2009, 12:01 PM

At the end of the day, gear score is a quick and dirty way of getting a metric on a tank. No one has ever said it was a great, good, or even adequate tank metric but it is easy. Can you tank that instance? Sure. Would you want to go with a group that required you to have a high gear score for 10 man farm content? Probably not.

If you find yourself wanting to join a pug for a 10 man that is looking for you to be epically gemmed in t9.5 you may want to look for another group because most likely they are crutching too much on the tank and whether it's true or not you will be the cause of their failure. I don't do 10 mans for anyone else but my guild.

Eowyyn · #23 10-12-2009, 09:28 AM

Okay... Lets reset for a sec. The OP was a question. Is Gear Score really that important?

I asked because I found that for a fight I was geared enough for (Raid DEF capped, high avoidance, 40k HP, etc) I got some flack about my gear score.

I play(ed) my Druid as my main for along time after LK came out and only picked up the palli as a deversion. You try looking at a walking celery stick HoT machine or Laser Chicken of Doom for 3+ years.

I respect all the tanks out there that want to e-preen thier "plumbs" but in the end of the day...

If you have enough gear for the fight you are attempting
Not suck and make the healers job harder than it has to be
you can read Fill In The Blank.com to learn about the fight
know how to play a video game....

Does gear score matter? If it does which is what I getting so far then I'll farm heroics for badges and get more gear.

So I can get into those Uld/TOC/ OS3d runs

Blasterion · #24 10-12-2009, 09:38 AM

I think Gear Score as an SAT score something that gives a bad measure but a fast one. Useful when pugging someone. It's unreliable but it is a fast way to see if people are geared. no it isn't important but for someone who leads pugs often as me i do deem it neccesary to run my raids efficiently

**Nez** · #25 10-12-2009, 09:38 AM

/agree with Ion and Klor

Eravian · #26 10-12-2009, 09:44 AM

Gear score is not important at all, in the long run. Gear score indicates which instance/set of instances you're gear came from, and means that there are a few more points that can be assigned to that item. It doesn't mean that the points assigned will be useful in anyway. The only fight that gear score matters in is Flame Leviathan, where your vehicle's power scales in relation to your gear score. Otherwise, making sure you meet all the hit/defense/expertise/etc requirements of your class are FAR more important than the gear score you may have.

**Tendo** · #27 10-12-2009, 09:46 AM

I've used be.imba.hu before, will have to look into this Gear Score, but the level I'm at (entry level Naxx 10) I'd never be looked at to tank a PUG since everyone wants 50k HP badge runs (well, who does Naxx anymore anyways?) and don't want to work on it.

I've started the new badge grind in heroics, and ToC (regular mode too) as I can. I agree with whomever on the first page: the enchants, the gems, and the consideration of BiS (not iLevel) indicates a tank who might not be the best, but is trying his best! It takes more work than you remember to grind badges and rep for the proper gear/enchants (Sons of Hodir finished yesterday, finally!), so anyone sporting those rewards has put in the work. Checking achievements is another thing: unless one can prove an alt has downed KT and YS (or that other end boss) dozens of times, why should someone with minimal raid experience be taken at their word?

Wow, based on my opinions above, I'm a HORRIBLE tank and I'd never take me in a PuG!

Suessa · #28 10-12-2009, 12:37 PM

To the question "Does gear score really matter?" the answer is "Yes." The reason is simply because whether or not anyone agrees with it, there are people who put together 10 and especially 25 man pugs who just look at your gear score to determine if you are worthwhile. If they see a borderline or low-ish gear score, then yes, a lot of them will check your achieves and such, but the bottom line is "Yes, it does matter, because there are some people out there who won't take you in a group if your gear score is low."

On that note, I see one, and pretty much only one argument, as to why gear score should be considered a valid measure of how effective a player and their character are going to be in a situation, and that is the one that most people have mentioned so far: it lets you know whether or not you need to take a second look. There is sort of a median acceptable range that people look at for any given raid in terms of gear score; if you are much above that, they are going to look again to verify you aren't padding your gear score with pvp junk, while if you are too low, they may either not consider you, or take a look at your achieves etc.

Beyond that, gear score IMO is crap. I take this opportunity to interject with my opinion because I have clearly answered the OP's question, and my answers come at the price of letting me rant for a second XD. I'll spin you a tale: my account got hacked pre-3.1, and I lost all of my nearly at that time best-in-slot tanking gear. The character was deleted too. Well, when I went to get everything righted, they brought my characters back, but not my gear, despite several pleas. So, I did what we tanks tend to do in most situations where we are dealt crap: I dealt with it. I naturally went for the defense cap, and soon got into groups for several heroics. Upon invite, eyebrows raised. My response was always my coolest "Don't get nervous, we'll be fine," and the situation always ended up with us being fine. From this, I learned something that I really haven't had to experience before, and that is the prejudice that people pump into gear score. I also did learn one valuable way to combat this: if you try to get into a group, and they whisper you that your gearscore is a bit low, explain things to them that imply that you know what you are doing. "I'm sorry, I know I have a few easy upgrades left to get, but I have made very certain to trade off all points in Defense for points in avoidance stats, as I know this is a fight where avoidance tanking will be of more benefit than pure Stam tanking due to blah blah blah", or "Yea, my gear is low, you'll notice, though, that I only had this piece so I wouldn't have to gem for defense which resulted in a net gain of about 2k health, blah blah blah," really went a long way with me; pointing out that they should take a look at my pre-3.1 achieves went a pretty long way too, hehe.

The nature of my posts is "Long," haha, I apologize about that. But this subject I had a bit to say on. Gearscore is a valid thing to look at if you want to get a basic idea of a character's ability and the amount of work the player has put into that character, but if you use it as your Bible, you are failing in what I think is a huge thing a raid leader should NOT fail at, and that is understanding some basics about each class, like strong specs, stats to look for, etc. I don't expect my raid leader to know the entire threat priority chart for prot warriors, or the point at which it becomes beneficial to switch to Mongoose on my rogue's weapons because at high gear levels Mongoose outshines Berserker slightly, but I would like them to be familiar with popular and effective specs for each class and understand things like hit caps and defense caps and their importance to each class. Not too much to ask of the person who is supposed to be telling me what to do for the next few hours, in my opinion.

TL;DR, you should aim for a high gear score when you can, but that doesn't necessarily mean I agree with using gearscore to decide on invites. Wordy tank is wordy

**Lulia** · #29 10-12-2009, 12:42 PM

The gear in that armory is fine for Ony 10, anyone that says otherwise shouldn't be leading a pug.

Durandro · #30 10-12-2009, 12:49 PM

You can't pre-judge anyone (unless their actual gear is so awful that it's clear they don't have a clue about the game). There are multiple reasons for this:

1/ Casual player. Only runs 5 mans normally, occationally likes to run short 10 mans.

2/ New player. Not neccesarily a bad one, since you can read up on guides and strategies beforehand no problem. I did.

3/ Alt. Just because this character hasn't cleared this content doesn't mean the player hasn't.

And I'd like to say something...a tank being carried? Oh please. The day a tank gets carried by a dps is the day pigs rain from the sky.

Not to mention he says he was the offtank. And had more hp then the main tank. I think that speaks HUGE volumes.

**Lulia** · #31 10-12-2009, 12:51 PM

Yeah, tanks can't really be carried in most fights. There are some fights where OTs can be carried, this isn't one of them. They may be on the borderline and need more heals than they should or whatever, but they will have done their work or the raid will wipe.

Suessa · #32 10-12-2009, 12:53 PM

Source: Durandro
Not to mention he says he was the offtank. And had more hp then the main tank. I think that speaks HUGE volumes.

I largely agree with your post, but just quickly wanted to say that moar hp=/=bettar tank.

Durandro · #33 10-12-2009, 12:58 PM

Well my point there was that if people are going to bang on about iLevel scores and don't even look at someone's hp, then there are doing it all wrong.

Normal pug behaviour is 'look at hp, ignore everything else'.

**klor** · #34 10-12-2009, 12:59 PM

Source: Durandro
Not to mention he says he was the offtank. And had more hp then the main tank. I think that speaks HUGE volumes.

Brewfest trinkets are serious business :P Having more hp does NOT speak large volumes nor does it say anything about another tank.

**Nez** · #35 10-12-2009, 03:14 PM

./agree with Klor

lulz

**jaydee** · #36 10-13-2009, 03:58 AM

Given that the gear in use is appropriate for the role, and the gems + enchants are decent, gear score gives a *rough* idea of how you'll be doing. But that's just a small part of the big picture. You then consider experience (achievements), source of items (badges or boss drops) and feedback from other people.

I think the RL that called you out was just trying to make sure that you'll be able to tank the boss AND keep the boss on you, without having the DPS hold out due to threat reasons. It's understandable, and if you're the RL and have 8 other people relying on your judgment to pick the right person for the job, then I bet you'd do the same.

Don't let it bring you down, instead farm better gear and get over the issue. Give them what they're looking for to shut them up.

**mero12513** · #37 10-13-2009, 04:08 AM

I've personally noticed, with great sadness, that the majority of pugs need to outgear content in order to clear it.

I've also seen that most pug raid leaders take an extra, unnecessary healer in most 10-man situations. I've cleared every 10-man in the game normal-mode encounter in the game with 2 healers, and most leaders take 3. If this was the case in your raid, 2 blue items should not make more of a difference than an extra healer.

Sadly, you'll find that you run into misinformed raid leaders often, and other people who oversimplify very complex issues into simple numbers. Gear score does definitely matter, but it is in no way a good indication of the value of a player (of any role) to the success of your raid. The only way around this truth is to develop a good report and, eventually, you will outgear everything you do just like every pug does.

**Valalvax** · #38 10-13-2009, 07:16 AM

Source: Maros_vek
Actually, my point exactly. His gear only means take a second look. It is his experience that slows me down. Look at your record, Squirrelnut, obviously you have worked at being an uber tank (btw.. kudo's on that record, best raid clear's I've ever seen on any toon, looks like only thing you skipped was Algalon! Wow!). You didn't just jump from being a 5 man heroic tank into trying to tank end game without working for it. You built a skill (and gear) set by working your butt off. (too bad you are a hordie!!! lol)

I'm just saying he either needs to prove experience from another toon, or put in his dues before I let him wipe my raid, especially when we currently have no problem finding tanks.

I'm sorry, since when is Ony end-game?

I'm not sure when it happened, but lately Tankspot has a bunch of General Forum idiots running around

Bashal · #39 10-13-2009, 09:06 AM

Source: Eowyyn
Okay... Lets reset for a sec. The OP was a question...does gear score matter? If it does which is what I getting so far then I'll farm heroics for badges and get more gear.

So I can get into those Uld/TOC/ OS3d runs

A gear score basically summarizes your average item level and indicates if your average level of gear is suitable for a particular level of content. Not accounting for odd gemming, enchanting, poor gear choices or skill, generally people who have a gear score that is appropriate to a certain tier of content will have a high enough health, output enough dps/threat/etc., allowing them to be an equal contributor.

I can be def capped in all iLvl 200 gear, for example. This does not mean that I could tank ToTCr successfully. I would lack the necessary survivability for the encounter. My gear score would indicate that my gear is insufficient to the task.

I'd have to say that gear score matters more in a pug, where some quick (if not entirely accurate) means of weeding out undergeared players is needed. In a guilded run where the quality of the players are known, raw gear score matters less.

**Maros_vek** · #40 11-04-2009, 01:28 PM

Source: Valalvax

I'm not sure when it happened, but lately Tankspot has a bunch of General Forum idiots running around

Oh Wow!! I'm impressed!! Since you are obviously wanting a 6th grade schoolyard name calling pissin match over semantics (look it up, its in a dictionary for big people), shall we meet after school and duke it out after you have your milk and nap break? Oh, I'm sorry, I can't since it's against the law for adults to turn little boys over their knees and spank them. Sorry!