TankSpot - General Discussion http://www.tankspot.com/forums/ General discussion is welcome here. Before posting here, check the Posting Rules to make sure your topic does not belong in another forum. en Fri, 20 Nov 2009 23:15:26 GMT vBulletin 60 http://www.tankspot.com/forums/images/misc/rss.jpg TankSpot - General Discussion http://www.tankspot.com/forums/ General WoW - Hacked accounts http://www.tankspot.com/forums/f56/58361-wow-hacked-accounts.html Thu, 19 Nov 2009 23:02:28 GMT So I just joined the legions of the hacked last night. Currently awaiting resolution on this, but I thought I would write about my experience to date. If you choose to respond to this thread, please, no mentions of authenticators, that is another can of worms to deal with.

If you browse the hacked accounts, all people ever talk about is how to recover their account, but I think for me the worst part is knowing there's a security breach but not know where it is, and more importantly, what other aspects have been compromised (WoW is just a game; your bank account is a bit more serious). If I never play WoW again, that is fine, it is just a game, but you just wonder if they are targetting my WoW account or if it more serious.

I have worked in IT in the past, but I am not a security specialist, so I have a rough idea of the usual suspects, but not the finer points. I do run an antivirus (McAfee), but in reality, my first line of defense is common sense (not clicking ads, watching for information people don't need, etc.).

So here goes: Account password does not match. Log in to email account and notice that a password change request was submitted. I use the automated password recovery feature, log in, and put in a ticket, while furiously running detailed scans (full AV scans instead of on-access, MBAM, HJT, etc.). I can account for everything, but I know that the newest threats out there may not be caught. Unbeknownst to me, my pwd was changed AGAIN shortly, using account management tool. It was late, so I head for bed. Next morning, log in to see what is going on, discover last night's pwd change. This time, I log into a different computer, which doesn't have wow, and change the password, and don't log in. Sure enough, I get an email on my account informing of the password recovery change, and then a SECOND one showing that the pwd was changed AGAIN using Account Management. Basically, within a few minutes, the person has again gotten my password.

To the best of my knowledge, the following are the options they could have used (if there are more, please feel free to contribute)
-Keylogger (although this is difficult to accept, given that the password was changed on a different computer).
-Hijacked PC - again, I couldn't see this happening, not just because of MBAM/HJT logs, but also it wouldn't have affected the 2nd PC.
-Packet Sniffers - I checked my router's IP table, no extra PCs logged on. my router, but I can't look beyond that.

Anyways, feel free to share your (non-authenticator) experiences or comments. ]]> General Discussion Insahnity http://www.tankspot.com/forums/f56/58361-wow-hacked-accounts.html Warrior toc 10 taunting problem http://www.tankspot.com/forums/f56/58340-toc-10-taunting-problem.html Thu, 19 Nov 2009 15:33:43 GMT Hey quik one eitehr im really unlucky or im doing something wrong,

on the 1st boss of northend beats, me and pala tanking, i put viligance on pala for unlimited tautns ect,

when it was my turn to take the boss, it resisted

mockingblow resist,
Taunt Resist.
Taunt Resist
Taunt Resist
Taunt Ressit
Taunt Resist
Taunt Resist.

I was on vent saying , "erm cant taunt him off u lol" is this normal is there somthing i have missed or was it jsut one of those things and i was unlucky? ]]> General Discussion kingymech http://www.tankspot.com/forums/f56/58340-toc-10-taunting-problem.html Warrior warrior soloing build? http://www.tankspot.com/forums/f56/58335-warrior-soloing-build.html Thu, 19 Nov 2009 13:19:03 GMT My memory isnt the greatest but I could have sworn someone posted some videos of a warrior soloing some raid content ( BC i think ) and had a link with his/her soloing build ( something like 30/40 ). Does anyone still have that or could you point me in the right direction? Im wanting to play with my offspec. Thanks!! My memory isnt the greatest but I could have sworn someone posted some videos of a warrior soloing some raid content ( BC i think ) and had a link with his/her soloing build ( something like 30/40 ).

Does anyone still have that or could you point me in the right direction? Im wanting to play with my offspec.

Thanks!! ]]> General Discussion jprich http://www.tankspot.com/forums/f56/58335-warrior-soloing-build.html General Getting over Raid Burnout http://www.tankspot.com/forums/f56/58314-getting-over-raid-burnout.html Wed, 18 Nov 2009 21:33:38 GMT I'm one of two dedicated tanks in my 25 man guild. The third tank spot has been a series of failures but hopefully we have finally found a decent one.

With running the same instance 4 times a week for months I'm almost completely burnt. We are currently on heroic champs and I don't even look forward their eventual downing.

The way I see it is

1. Just tank the 25 progression (How do i tell a guild they cant run regular or 10 man 10 man they cant cause im burnt. )

2. Go dps (being 1 of not even 3 tanks this would kill our guilds runs)

Any Ideas on how to get back to enjoying it without hurting the guild?

p.s. I do blame the new system. If you want to make make the fastest and best progress you have to run all of them for your guildies gear and yours. ]]> General Discussion cael http://www.tankspot.com/forums/f56/58314-getting-over-raid-burnout.html WotLK The Gates of Icecrown http://www.tankspot.com/forums/f56/58308-gates-icecrown.html Wed, 18 Nov 2009 19:14:37 GMT Icecrown Citadel Raid Access Progression (http://forums.wow-europe.com/thread.html?topicId=11586620204&sid=1&pageNo=1) In summary: * Four distinct sections: The Lower Spire, Plagueworks, Crimson Hall, and Frostwing Halls * On release, only the first section available. Later sections un-gated on an timescale tbc * ToGC style 'wipe counter' on the four most difficult encounters in Icecrown Citadel: Professor Putricide, Blood-Queen Lana'thel, Sindragosa, and the Lich King. Counter starts very low - 5 wipes, increasing by 5 with each gate opening * "Auto-nerf" mechanic, over time the players will receive a buff of some sort. * No hard modes at all until Arthas is dead. No hard mode attempts on Arthas until Wing bosses and Sindragosa are killed on hard mode *each week* Naturally the reaction on the official forums is one of outcry. I wonder what the more mature tankspot audience makes of this? I'm still getting my head around what it will mean to me as a raider and raid leader. Am I going to be in the same position as TOC, scratching my head wondering what to do after walking over the first 4 bosses, or will this be a nice way to ease us into the content.]]> Blizzard have just announced the gating system that they are planning for Icecrown Citadel.

World of Warcraft (en) Forums -> Icecrown Citadel Raid Access Progression

In summary:
  • Four distinct sections: The Lower Spire, Plagueworks, Crimson Hall, and Frostwing Halls
  • On release, only the first section available. Later sections un-gated on an timescale tbc
  • ToGC style 'wipe counter' on the four most difficult encounters in Icecrown Citadel: Professor Putricide, Blood-Queen Lana'thel, Sindragosa, and the Lich King. Counter starts very low - 5 wipes, increasing by 5 with each gate opening
  • "Auto-nerf" mechanic, over time the players will receive a buff of some sort.
  • No hard modes at all until Arthas is dead. No hard mode attempts on Arthas until Wing bosses and Sindragosa are killed on hard mode *each week*
Naturally the reaction on the official forums is one of outcry. I wonder what the more mature tankspot audience makes of this?

I'm still getting my head around what it will mean to me as a raider and raid leader. Am I going to be in the same position as TOC, scratching my head wondering what to do after walking over the first 4 bosses, or will this be a nice way to ease us into the content. ]]> General Discussion swelt http://www.tankspot.com/forums/f56/58308-gates-icecrown.html Deathknight How many DK Tanks are gunning for Shadowmourne? http://www.tankspot.com/forums/f56/58275-how-many-dk-tanks-gunning-shadowmourne.html Wed, 18 Nov 2009 03:21:52 GMT Pretty much title says it all, how many of you are moist at the possibility of tanking with a great big dirty 2h?? How many of you think your in a position where your guild will let you have it? Pretty much title says it all, how many of you are moist at the possibility of tanking with a great big dirty 2h?? How many of you think your in a position where your guild will let you have it? ]]> General Discussion toonnamefail http://www.tankspot.com/forums/f56/58275-how-many-dk-tanks-gunning-shadowmourne.html Warrior In response to Ghostcrawler on tank balance/prot warriors. http://www.tankspot.com/forums/f56/58257-response-ghostcrawler-tank-balance-prot-warriors.html Tue, 17 Nov 2009 21:52:18 GMT How Heroic Strike spam could be alleviated. (http://forums.wow-europe.com/thread.html?topicId=11541775011&sid=1) I could go on and on about issues, but that's not what this thread is about. I'm not trying to highlight any issues that have been brought up time and time again, and I'm not asking for buffs either, I've done that plenty of times in other threads, this is about questioning the rationale behind the reasons Ghostcrawler state are why Prot isn't seeing anything addressed this patch. This thread is about saying that no, that reason doesn't wash, the logic is faulty. If one class is the most popular at a given role, and that class has issues, then those issues are the most pertinent for that role, logic dictates those issues are the most important. Because if it's constantly hammered in that Warriors are the most popular tanks, then we can no longer see a Warrior issue as just a Warrior issue, we have to see it as an issue that is effecting the largest player base of all tanks. Or to sum it all up nice and succinctly: *It seems strange not to fix the most popular tank.* Needs of the many and all that. As way of apology for that massive amount of text, here's a picture of my wonderful little puppy: http://farm3.static.flickr.com/2424/3973606345_ff7b0e7993_o.jpg]]> Ok, I also posted this on the official European Warcraft forums, but I feel that the euroforums are often ignored by blues, so if there's any US poster kind enough, would they mind reposting this on the US forums? Anyway, here it is:

I really have to say, I simply do not understand Ghostcrawler's rationale.

This is in response to Ghostcrawler's latest comments, which can be read here: MMO-Champion BlueTracker - If Blizzard Cant even get tank balance right

I don't want to continually bring things up, I'm sure the guy comes under criticism enough, but one particularly famous quote in response to Warrior tanks from GC that had a lot of people up in arms was:

Quote:
It seems strange to buff the most popular tanks.
A lot of people took that comment in a bit of an alarmist fashion (including me at the time) and read into it that Blizzard were intentionally keeping warrior tanks down in order to fill out the ranks of other tanking classes, and perhaps that idea was given credence to with the admitted practice of some guilds swapping out Warrior main tanks for Death Knights on fights like Sarth +3D and Vezax. Now, I don't subscribe to the notion that Blizzard hates Warriors like some people do, and I will take a lot of comments from Ghostcrawler at face value rather than try to read too much into them, but it does seem that the issues with Warrior tanking are pretty low on Blizzard's list of priorities.

The reason for this? Warriors are the most popular tanks. That despite the differences between classes in terms of effective health, cooldowns and such, for most guilds Warriors were still tanking everything and will still be tanking the content in 3.3, therefor no issues need to be addressed.

I just don't get it.

Ghostcrawler said:

Quote:
My prediction is warriors will main tank more bosses in Icecrown than all the other tanks (probably more than all others combined), even the hard modes, even Arthas.
I think that's a given, there's no getting around the fact that Warriors are the tanking majority. If Warrior tanks didn't give up their class and either rerolled or quit in 3.0 and 3.1, then they certainly going to now when class balance is better, and Warrior tanking has improved since 3.2. Even anecdotal evidence says that Warriors aren't in such a poor state that people are quitting, because I've only known one Warrior tank that's quit recently, yet I know 2 Paladin tanks who've quit. So it just stands to reason that despite some alarmist notions, Warriors aren't going anywhere and will still be the tank majority for the foreseeable future, because even in the face of imbalance, players are holding fast with their choice of class. That's all fairly well established by now, and assuming that the effective health differences between Warriors and Paladins are as dire as predicted in 3.3, it's still only going to end up with some resentment towards Pallies and not effect who is tanking what. The EH differences aren't going to make any fight in Icecrown Citadel impossible if you're a Warrior, and I think we all know that.

But again and again, with regards to balance, and with regards to class issues being addressed, or changes being made, it's always the same thing being pointed out. Warriors are the most popular tanks. Warriors are still tanking all the content. And what I don't understand is, why is that a reason not to address issues? Why is that the reason Warrior tanking is at the bottom of the list of priorities? Because it seems to me that the fact that Warriors make up the vast majority of tanks should logically mean that they should be at the top of priority when it comes to issues with the class. Why? Because if Warriors are the majority of tanks, then an issue that effects warriors is one that effects the majority of tanks. Simply, the issues that effect the largest player base should be the ones that are the most pertinent. The needs of the many outweigh the needs of the few.

Back before we got rage on avoidance in 3.2, tanking a heroic with a Warrior was something that was extremely frustrating, because as our gear got better, we got more avoidance, and that left us in a position we'd be extremely rage starved. I myself had pretty much refused to tank Heroics during 3.1 it became so much of a pain. This had been an issue for an extremely long time, yet it was something that went completely unaddressed by Blizzard for a very long time, until our latest major content patch. I remember Ciderhelm making a straight up appeal to Blizzard to fix this issue on the front page of Tankspot before:

http://www.tankspot.com/forums/f64/5...ke-damage.html

Quote:
Give us rage on Avoidance. Don't make it a glyph, don't make it a new set of talents, put it somewhere that we're going to get it by doing what we're already doing. There is absolutely no reason for us to be doing worse DPS as our gear increases, and it serves absolutely no sensible purpose. Even if it's a bandaid or a short-term fix until a long-term solution is given, it's still better than sitting there wondering when we're actually going to get to use an ability because we were unlucky.
It was a huge quality of life issue for Warrior tanks (that has thankfully has been addressed at last), but that also means that it was a huge quality of life issue for the majority of tanks, because as Ghostcrawler likes to remind us constantly, the Warrior class makes up the majority of tanks, and made tanking heroics frustrating for the majority of tanks. So I really don't understand why the "warriors still tank everything/warriors are the majority" lines keep getting trotted out as a reason not to fix Warrior issues, when it's in direct opposition to addressing issues that effect the majority of tanks.

In response to someone saying that just because Warriors are popular, doesn't mean they're overpowered, Ghostcrawler has said:

Quote:
I agree it does not mean that warriors are OP. But does it mean we should nerf the tanking class that nobody is really using?
No, it means you should sooner address the issues of tanking class that most players are using, than those of the tanking class that nobody is really using. It makes far more logical sense than ignoring the issues of the tanking class that most players are using. I think that maybe Ghostcrawler would be better off not questioning about why there are not so many people playing druids when numerically they are the better class, just accept tank representation as it is, and work on addressing the most pertinent tanking issues that effect the most players.

Or to put it in a colorful euphemism, lets say you have an extremely large concert venue, and you have the chance to book Rush, or a little known underground band. More people love Rush and would benefit the most from seeing a concert from them in their area, and they would fill your venue far more than the underground band would. Do you repeatedly ask why the lesser known band isn't as popular, or do you just book Rush?

On a related issue, a lot has been said of the lack of the "Tank Shortage", there's just been comments from Bornakk about it here:

MMO-Champion BlueTracker - How to solve the tank shortage

Speaking as a tank, I don't really know much about a shortage, my problem is usually finding healers. However, lets assume that tank shortages are a really big problem. Keeping in mind that for Warriors, tanking heroics was largely very frustrating because of rage starvation when you out-gear it, would that not mean that the majority of tanks were feeling that frustration, because Warriors are the majority? And therefor, could any tank shortages be caused by the majority of tanks not wanting to do 5 man content because of class issues? So why was an issue that effected Prot Warriors ability to tank 5 man content left until 3.2 to be addressed?

And look, Effective Health always seems to be one of the issues Blizzard comment on, and the blue response is always saying that Warriors can tank all content. But there's more issues than just EH, and I don't think that "can tank all content" is valid reasoning at all. Lets go back to rage on avoidance again, because that was an issue that made little difference to whether a prot warrior was able to take a hit or not. If we still didn't have rage on avoidance in 3.3, then I'm sure we'd still be able to tank everything in the game. So I don't think any rationale should exist that if we can tank the content, then no changes are necessary, because the rage issue was a very serious one that didn't relate to the class being able to tank the big bosses from the latest tier of content. Quality of life issues can be just as serious as effective health issues, and they should be looked into regardless of how well the class can tank the content.

Now I know at this point, people might feel like they're reading a novel on the habits of the lesser spotted Ghostcrawler, but I don't believe that this constant excuse of "but warriors are the most popular" is a valid one, when all we're seeing in the patch notes of 3.3 is that Victory Rush is trainable at level 6, and damage shield won't proc any effects. There's a lot of issues that are quite easily fixed, yet aren't getting so much as comment, never mind a test run on the PTR.

Something from Ciderhelm in the same post about rage on avoidance that I wholeheartedly agree with:

Quote:
Two major glyphs & two talent points to bring our survivability cooldowns in line with encounter timers. Why?
I just can't understand why we've got to take 2 major glyphs and have to spend 2 talent points to reduce our cooldowns to something other classes have as standard. It just seems silly. Warrior talent specs are already stretched fairly thin, and it feels as though I've only got 1 glyph that's free to work with, or change to taste. I'd like to have 2 minute cooldowns as standard, and have those glyph slots to work with, to suit my playing, instead of having 2 glyphs that are near-mandatory for progression. Hell, there's a lot of changes I'd like to see, but that's for another thread. Go here if you'd like to see what I have to say about the issue of Heroic Strike spam: World of Warcraft (en) Forums -> How Heroic Strike spam could be alleviated.

I could go on and on about issues, but that's not what this thread is about. I'm not trying to highlight any issues that have been brought up time and time again, and I'm not asking for buffs either, I've done that plenty of times in other threads, this is about questioning the rationale behind the reasons Ghostcrawler state are why Prot isn't seeing anything addressed this patch. This thread is about saying that no, that reason doesn't wash, the logic is faulty. If one class is the most popular at a given role, and that class has issues, then those issues are the most pertinent for that role, logic dictates those issues are the most important. Because if it's constantly hammered in that Warriors are the most popular tanks, then we can no longer see a Warrior issue as just a Warrior issue, we have to see it as an issue that is effecting the largest player base of all tanks.

Or to sum it all up nice and succinctly:

It seems strange not to fix the most popular tank.

Needs of the many and all that.

As way of apology for that massive amount of text, here's a picture of my wonderful little puppy: http://farm3.static.flickr.com/2424/...7b0e7993_o.jpg ]]> General Discussion Karlhungus http://www.tankspot.com/forums/f56/58257-response-ghostcrawler-tank-balance-prot-warriors.html <![CDATA[Warrior Warriors & DKs stamina scaling in ICC.]]> http://www.tankspot.com/forums/f56/58221-warriors-dks-stamina-scaling-icc.html Tue, 17 Nov 2009 09:15:57 GMT I have brought this up before but back then ICC was still quite a bit off and most of the tanks did not have alot of the ilv258 items. Well now that we do have a bit of 258 items the health difference between the two underdogs and the two stamina monsters are quite... well, big.

I for one as a endgame tank would like warriors and DKs to be bumped to 10% stamina scaling in 3.3 and I was really hoping for that aswell. But I read patch notes and I see nothing about it there. Why is this? The health difference will probably be a bit higher than now. I think it is fine for Paladins to have an extra 4% over DK/warrior to adjust from the base health difference but right now its just absurd and it needs to be fixed.

So basicly Paladins keep their 14% scaling, Druids will keep their extreme scaling and warriors/dks would be bumped to 10%. I can't see how this would be a bad thing and I can't see how it would make paladins worser.

Any thoughts on this, or am I the only concerned warrior here? ]]> General Discussion Tzobee http://www.tankspot.com/forums/f56/58221-warriors-dks-stamina-scaling-icc.html Warrior Heroic strike RSI to remain http://www.tankspot.com/forums/f56/58220-heroic-strike-rsi-remain.html Tue, 17 Nov 2009 07:47:49 GMT Arrrrg dam it going to have to order more RSI medicine

MMO-Champion BlueTracker - Why no heroic strike fix?


Why they cant just increase the threat on SS, revenge and devastate and dump it off heroic strike is crazy.

That can't be that hard :=( ]]> General Discussion uglybbtoo http://www.tankspot.com/forums/f56/58220-heroic-strike-rsi-remain.html General the threat reduction gem http://www.tankspot.com/forums/f56/58199-threat-reduction-gem.html Mon, 16 Nov 2009 23:00:46 GMT As you can see from my mage Duarte, I have a meta gem that reduces my threat by 2%. When I asked a random question on the mage forum in WoW, I was laughed at because of this. My reply to this is, since I am a dps, I am supposed to control my threat as well, not just leave it all to the tank.

Who is in the right, my "fellow" mages, or I, and if it's the former, should I replace my gem to give me more dps? ]]> General Discussion defence http://www.tankspot.com/forums/f56/58199-threat-reduction-gem.html General View Distance Macro http://www.tankspot.com/forums/f56/58198-view-distance-macro.html Mon, 16 Nov 2009 22:41:30 GMT I know in the first podcast, there was talk about putting the macro for setting ur camera distance at max range. I'm sure its up on the forums somewhere, but i cannot locate it, if someone knows what it is and could let me know it would be much appreciated, thank you. ]]> General Discussion Kaug http://www.tankspot.com/forums/f56/58198-view-distance-macro.html General Are you *really* defense capped? http://www.tankspot.com/forums/f56/58197-you-really-defense-capped.html Mon, 16 Nov 2009 22:15:09 GMT Beginner's Guide to Tanking- By Class (http://forums.worldofwarcraft.com/thread.html?topicId=14318774064&sid=1) I missed the part on this threat where it said that I have to be 30k HP for heroics. This kind of problem is something I faced often because I made a toon fresh from 80. With this kind of dylemna, my second "defense" is dedication, to not be dissuaded by people who simply want to farm badges. You became a tank because you like tanking, not to please random pug members. If you meet the requirements for heroics (which is roughly 21K for all tanks,535 defense), you can try the following defenses against pug members Straightforward defense Link the wow forum link posted above, and also mention that blizzard made this thread a sticky. State that if they don't like you tanking solely because of your health, they are free to leave the group. Showoff defense Ask them to give you a chance to tank, since you meet the minimum requirenments. Use the first set of mobs to show off your skills and impress your fellow teammates. If it doesn't work, retreat to the straightforward defense, but this is a more passive way of letting your group know that you can tank. Form your own group This type of stratergy is very effective, since it greatly nullifies dps/healers critiquing you of your health for some reason. No matter your health, you are in supply and demand, and, so long as you meet the minimum requirenments, you will nearly always find a group. * Resilience 3, self-defense*: It's a great thing when a rogue told me about his TnT skill and the hunter's misdirect. It was also great in the tanking forum in wow when I was told what to enchant. What is not great, and what you should not allow, is backseat tanking. Different players follow different playstyle. There are tanks who like to rush, there are tanks who like to take their time (mark the mobs, position properly, run raid checks, etc. There are tanks that care about each player, and there are tanks that are heartless, even to the healers. Moreover, there are different playstyle of tanking; there is not one set rotation, (emphasis on warriors above the other 3). There are warriors that cleave, there are warriors that macro everything to heroic strike, and there are warriors who thunderclap in every cooldown. My playstyle is the devastate/shield slam combo. It works for me. If a style blocks for you, then stick with it. I hate it when the random dps, who think he has played my class, say how I should tank (again, backseat tanking is *not* the same as constr uctive criticism, or advice from other players. Backseat tanking is the act of a fellow player rudely telling you how to play your class the way they see fit). If you like to mark the mobs, mark away. If you like to wait for the healer and/or the dps' mana, by all means. If you tank a mob in a unique fashion, and it has worked for you, no need to change your style then. This one is made by rude players, and so I recommend using a straightforward response. I normally get called at because I mark all my mobs. I simply reply that marking mob takes less than a second because they're keybound, and to stop backseat tanking me. They don't like my playstyle, they are not forced to stay in the group. Remember, it is *your* 15 that you're putting for your account, not theirs. *Resilience 4, human nature*: As I walk to my college, I sometimes see random guys sitting around the grocery store, hollering girls. The first phrase goes along the line of "hey girl, you got a nice body in there," which usually follows the girls ignoring them, and then colorful words starts to be shout out. Now why am I talking about what some random guys do to girls in the street? Because we play WoW, where there are 10 million players online, and out of those 10 millions you will bump into people who want atte ntion as well. If you do not believe me, then turn on trade channel for the occasional village idiot. And so, resilience 4, when all else fail, is to simply ignore them. By talking back to them, you are giving them the attention they're looking for, and so they are winning. The only exception in this is when you feel his comment is affecting the group/raid's perception of you. You can alleviate this by asking the group/raid members about your current status. *Resilience 5*, *the* *ignore list is your friend: *In order to avoid grouping or just plain interacting with fellow WoW players, blizzard has given us a list to use called "ignore." Use it, it won't bite. You are playing to have fun, not to be harrased nor grouped by some idiot. *Resilience 6: 5, 10, 25* There are 5 men in an instance, 10 man in a 10 man raid, and 25 in a 25 one. If the mage pulls a mob while you were busy tanking 20, is it your fault? If a priest forgot to change from shadow to holy, is OOM, and heals are not landing to you, is that your fault? Resilience 6 is to admit that you're not the only player in the instance/raid. Admit that not every wipe is your fault. At the same time, do not get this resilience in your head; you still have to remember resilience 1, your own limitation. *Resilience 7, goal* This one is a bit sensitive. Why did you decide to become a tank? If you don't have a good reason to answer that question, then maybe you need to make one. If you cannot come up with a reason, maybe tanking isn't for you. Bad/weak reasons are as followed: -Easier to get groups -Because my guild needed one -Because it is what my class is made for Great reasons are as followed -I enjoy the leadership -I like to protect my comrades -I just find it fun -It's great to not get 1 shotted I call these resilience, not defense, because, even when using all these stratergies, you might still get affected by your fellow wow players. Better to arm yourself though, and I wish you luck in your tanking experience. P.S Feel free to put any additional "resilience" you can come up with.]]> It's true that players can easily get defense capped by getting reputation gear, saronite set, and some additional chanting/gemming. Yes, they won't get crit by the mobs in the game, but what's stopping them from getting crit by their fellow players?

Let me clear up first off that this is not pvp related when I talk about crit by players. When I say this phrase, I talk about the demoralization and one of the founding reasons why, if people want to dps rather than tank, they have to wait hours spamming on the lfg channel "lf 1m tank [H] xxx, then g2g" where xxx can be any instance or raid. These demoralizations hurt, impairing us from doing our best of our abilities. Emphasis is put on the fact that tanks are generally the make or break of a group; a bad tank may lead a group into despair, whereas a bad dps just makes the run slower. This is why tanking is a thankless job. As all of us have experienced, we have been demoralized and cornered into putting up more "resilience" on ourselves. After seeing a fellow druid player, a hardcore raider of my guild in my mage, and a good friend of mine, get drunk because someone critisized his tanking skills, I will put on some of my "resilience" to you fellow tanks.

Resilience 1, limit:

You might be the most skilled tank in your guild. Your stam may be 50k and you may be hard capped on expertise and hit. Guess what, you're still human (no, not a human toon, the guy/girl clicking his/her screen and tapping his/her keybound spells). Because of this, you have the potential to even wipe in a heroic. It would be great for us to be mighty gods, immune of any small errors, but we're not. As such, my first resilience is accepting my own limitation, and accepting that I can make the occasional mistake. When I do make the mistake, I shrug it off, learn from what I did wrong, and try again.

At the same time, knowing your limitations also mean to not blame it on others. You know when you caused a wipe, so don't blame the dps/healer on it. Not only is that a form of denial, but you're needlessly demoralizing your fellow players.

Resilience 2, dedication:

"Am I ready for Naxx?: A vague and arguable question, getting ready for Naxx can be done through Heroics and Craftable gear in a short time. Here are some baseline values for each class unbuffed:

Druids – 25k Armor and 25k Health, 35-40% Avoidance

Death Knights – 540 Defense, 28K Health (in Frost Presence)

Paladins – 540 Defense, 23k Health

Warriors – 540 Defense, 25k Health"

source: World of Warcraft - English (NA) Forums -> Beginner's Guide to Tanking- By Class

I missed the part on this threat where it said that I have to be 30k HP for heroics.
This kind of problem is something I faced often because I made a toon fresh from 80.
With this kind of dylemna, my second "defense" is dedication, to not be dissuaded by
people who simply want to farm badges. You became a tank because you like tanking, not
to please random pug members. If you meet the requirements for heroics (which is roughly
21K for all tanks,535 defense), you can try the following defenses against pug members

Straightforward defense

Link the wow forum link posted above, and also mention that blizzard made this thread a
sticky. State that if they don't like you tanking solely because of your health, they are
free to leave the group.

Showoff defense

Ask them to give you a chance to tank, since you meet the minimum requirenments. Use the
first set of mobs to show off your skills and impress your fellow teammates. If it doesn't
work, retreat to the straightforward defense, but this is a more passive way of letting your
group know that you can tank.

Form your own group

This type of stratergy is very effective, since it greatly nullifies dps/healers critiquing
you of your health for some reason. No matter your health, you are in supply and demand, and, so
long as you meet the minimum requirenments, you will nearly always find a group.

Resilience 3, self-defense:

It's a great thing when a rogue told me about his TnT skill and the hunter's misdirect.
It was also great in the tanking forum in wow when I was told what to enchant. What is
not great, and what you should not allow, is backseat tanking.

Different players follow different playstyle. There are tanks who like to rush, there are
tanks who like to take their time (mark the mobs, position properly, run raid checks, etc.
There are tanks that care about each player, and there are tanks that are heartless, even
to the healers. Moreover, there are different playstyle of tanking; there is not one set
rotation, (emphasis on warriors above the other 3). There are warriors that cleave, there
are warriors that macro everything to heroic strike, and there are warriors who thunderclap
in every cooldown. My playstyle is the devastate/shield slam combo. It works for me. If a
style blocks for you, then stick with it. I hate it when the random dps, who think he has
played my class, say how I should tank (again, backseat tanking is *not* the same as constr
uctive criticism, or advice from other players. Backseat tanking is the act of a fellow player
rudely telling you how to play your class the way they see fit). If you like to mark the mobs,
mark away. If you like to wait for the healer and/or the dps' mana, by all means. If you tank
a mob in a unique fashion, and it has worked for you, no need to change your style then.

This one is made by rude players, and so I recommend using a straightforward response. I normally
get called at because I mark all my mobs. I simply reply that marking mob takes less than a second
because they're keybound, and to stop backseat tanking me. They don't like my playstyle, they are
not forced to stay in the group. Remember, it is *your* 15 that you're putting for your account, not
theirs.
Resilience 4, human nature:

As I walk to my college, I sometimes see random guys sitting around the grocery store, hollering girls.
The first phrase goes along the line of "hey girl, you got a nice body in there," which usually follows
the girls ignoring them, and then colorful words starts to be shout out.

Now why am I talking about what some random guys do to girls in the street? Because we play WoW, where
there are 10 million players online, and out of those 10 millions you will bump into people who want atte
ntion as well. If you do not believe me, then turn on trade channel for the occasional village idiot.

And so, resilience 4, when all else fail, is to simply ignore them. By talking back to them, you are giving them
the attention they're looking for, and so they are winning. The only exception in this is when you feel his
comment is affecting the group/raid's perception of you. You can alleviate this by asking the group/raid members
about your current status.

Resilience 5, the ignore list is your friend:

In order to avoid grouping or just plain interacting with fellow WoW players, blizzard has given us a list to
use called "ignore." Use it, it won't bite. You are playing to have fun, not to be harrased nor grouped by some
idiot.

Resilience 6: 5, 10, 25

There are 5 men in an instance, 10 man in a 10 man raid, and 25 in a 25 one. If the mage pulls a mob while you were busy
tanking 20, is it your fault? If a priest forgot to change from shadow to holy, is OOM, and heals are not landing to you,
is that your fault?

Resilience 6 is to admit that you're not the only player in the instance/raid. Admit that not every wipe is your fault.
At the same time, do not get this resilience in your head; you still have to remember resilience 1, your own limitation.

Resilience 7, goal

This one is a bit sensitive. Why did you decide to become a tank? If you don't have a good reason to answer that
question, then maybe you need to make one. If you cannot come up with a reason, maybe tanking isn't for you.

Bad/weak reasons are as followed:

-Easier to get groups
-Because my guild needed one
-Because it is what my class is made for

Great reasons are as followed

-I enjoy the leadership
-I like to protect my comrades
-I just find it fun
-It's great to not get 1 shotted





I call these resilience, not defense, because, even when using all these stratergies, you might still get
affected by your fellow wow players. Better to arm yourself though, and I wish you luck in your tanking experience.

P.S

Feel free to put any additional "resilience" you can come up with. ]]> General Discussion defence http://www.tankspot.com/forums/f56/58197-you-really-defense-capped.html Warrior Protection warrior improvement suggestions. http://www.tankspot.com/forums/f56/58188-protection-warrior-improvement-suggestions.html Mon, 16 Nov 2009 18:18:58 GMT This is thoughts on how to optimize/rework prot warriors, most of them are obviously inspired by others posters ideas i've picked up here and there.

Topic #1: Rage system

The current rage system is somewhat broken, witch of cause affect every aspect of the protection spec. mainly there are 2 different scenarios. You have infinite rage or you are rage starved.
The reason for this being 2 thinks a) almost all our rage comes from taking damage, witch is incontestable b) our abilities cost a big percentage of our maximum rage, especially when we are able to que a HS to our swing making us burn the double amount of rage pr. GCD

These 2 facts makes the rage system unreliable, un-fun to work with and seriously cripple us in situation where we do not take dmg. Such as off tanking.

Solutions:
1.Make most of rage income come from: a) melee attacks, b)passive rage regeneration and/or c)abilities witch gives rage instead of costing rage. intern heavily reduce the amount of rage we get from taking dmg.

a) This is a obvious source of rage! Works for our brothers in arms(and fury).
As mentioned many places, this would require a normalization of rage. Meaning you get a preset amount of rage each time you hit the enemy, of ´cause the amount of dmg you do should have influence of the rage gain, But no way near the the lvl of which it has atm.

b) Rather boring, but it would allow of a 100% steady source of rage. The way I imagine it to work, would be something like an improved “Anger management” but instead of 1rage/3sec should be something like 10(when in combat of cause). This could be implemented either as baseline. To compensate for the normalization of rage or a deep tier prot tallent

c) This one is could be real fun. Will give the player great control in hes rage management and urge players to use many different abilities.
The idea would be to let key abilities, with a rather long CD, give rage instead of cost rage. Examples: SW would give X rage/pr enemy it hits. SB make you regain X for Y secs. CB would increase you rage gain pr melee hit by X for Ysec. Keep talents like SnB that has z chance to make X free for Y sec.

The dangerous part around c) is if implemented in the wrong I could feel rather gimmicky and more like a chore the an active-fun-part.

Conclusion:

if a combination abc is implemented correctly it should give us steady income of rage. My guestimantion is a warrior without rage conserving talents and without using HS spend around 10rage/sec. The ideal would then be to make warriors, if played correctly, gain 15r/s. Because that would leave us a small cushion for our rage-burn-ability, witch I will discuss next. ]]> General Discussion Madvil http://www.tankspot.com/forums/f56/58188-protection-warrior-improvement-suggestions.html Warrior who do you vigilance? http://www.tankspot.com/forums/f56/58170-who-do-you-vigilance.html Mon, 16 Nov 2009 10:03:16 GMT When you get to a heroic/raid, who you you tend to put the "bandaid"

For me it has to be warlocks. I have no idea how they still rip aggro even when vigilanced ]]> General Discussion defence http://www.tankspot.com/forums/f56/58170-who-do-you-vigilance.html Warrior Best Raid Buffs and DeBuffs? http://www.tankspot.com/forums/f56/58148-best-raid-buffs-debuffs.html Sun, 15 Nov 2009 18:27:05 GMT I have two questions regarding Buffs and Debuffs...
Which ones don't stack together?
And of those that don't stack, which is better? (specifically regarding warriors)

For example, I know that Battle Shout won't stack with Blessing of Might. But isn't BS with 5/5 talent points better? Or Commanding Shout vs Blood Pact? Anything that doesn't stack with DemoShout SunderArmor or Thunderclap?

Sorry if this thread is already out there.
Thanks for the help. ]]> General Discussion Jaspar http://www.tankspot.com/forums/f56/58148-best-raid-buffs-debuffs.html