[Kazeyonoma]

No, i tested, 9% hit was all I needed to never miss with whirlwind, it still counts as a special attack, each one factors 9% hit.

And definitely slow/slow will be favored with this recent change, but die hard fans of slow/fast will probably keep it anyways,

[Cogswell]

Source: Morthengel So whirlwind will attack with both weapons...Does this mean the mainhand part of whirlwind can now miss even if you are above 9% hit?

I'm guessing no since it is still a yellow attack. I have yet to get on the PTR though so I could be wrong
Edit: Kazeyonoma beat me to it ^^

[Ungish]

So after reading some of this, I should be gemming +str?. Also should i go ahead and enchant potency on both weapons also??

[Daylanor]

Source: Ungish So after reading some of this, I should be gemming +str?. Also should i go ahead and enchant potency on both weapons also??

Gem Str if you don't want the socket bonus, I always go for str/crit/hit bonuses if it's +3 rating or more.

Only gems I use are, 8str, 4str/4crit, 4str/6stm, 4crit/6stm(if I need to boost my crit a bit). I would also use any +20AP gem I could get since that is more AP than 8str + kings gives you.

[Nobody]

Meeks, great guide in general, meshes very well with what I've been preaching for a while now.

I was wondering if you might consider adding a section about armor penetration to the guide. With the advent of the new loot from badges of justice, as well as Zul'Aman and season three gear being readily available, many people who could previously only envy Black temple armor pen gear now have to evaluate the stat against the trinity of str/crit/hit.

Personally I have been going with the rough evaluation of 7 armor penetration = 1 str = 1 crit rating when trying to evaluate different pieces. This isn't a perfect rubric, but I think it's a close enough approximation that it shouldn't lead me to far astray when evaluating which items I want to pick up.

[Morthengel]

Armor penetration increases your dps as a % of your current dps. And it scales non linearly. The more you stack, the more benefit you get from upgrading it.

Difficult. I think it is a good idea to stack something around 500 (3 pieces let's say) and adding dual executioner. That will get you to 1300 penetration most of the time, which means the bosses armor will be below 3k.

From there on, we will be able to consider what it is worth really. and decide to stack more of it or not to gimp other stats.

To me, it looks like it is a great stat.

[Meeks]

I am waiting until after the patch goes live and I know the final changes then I will work on the 4th edition. There will be an armor penetration section.

[zaltais]

Source: Meeks Also, haste rating has received a major nerf and I am not sure if it has been reevaluated yet on the guides. Armor penetration is also not rated with any points as it is impossible to put an exact value to it without knowing your targets armor. This means any item with armor penetration will be rated lower then it’s actually value. Those disclaimers aside they are still good guides.

Just thought I'd drop in and say thank you for a great guide and also post a link to this thread on elitistjerks with some pretty nice information about armor values for most raiding bosses: http://http://elitistjerks.com/f31/t..._armor_values/

[Faze]

Source: Meeks I am waiting until after the patch goes live and I know the final changes then I will work on the 4th edition. There will be an armor penetration section.

I love your guide and it has made me a much better fury warrior then I previously where. I have even gotten comments from guildes wondering how I have gotten so much better at dpsing after reading the guide

I just want to say that it's awsome that you are doing an armor penetration section on the next version, cause I'm really lost sometimes when it comes to that. Haven't gotten to many armor penetration items yet, but still.

[Nobody]

Source: Meeks I am waiting until after the patch goes live and I know the final changes then I will work on the 4th edition. There will be an armor penetration section.

Good to know.

Source: Morthengel Armor penetration increases your dps as a % of your current dps. And it scales non linearly. The more you stack, the more benefit you get from upgrading it. Difficult. I think it is a good idea to stack something around 500 (3 pieces let's say) and adding dual executioner. That will get you to 1300 penetration most of the time, which means the bosses armor will be below 3k. From there on, we will be able to consider what it is worth really. and decide to stack more of it or not to gimp other stats. To me, it looks like it is a great stat.

I agree, looks like a very tastey stat, especially for those into black temple/hyjal gear. What I'm personally questioning right now, as a warrior with access to only the gear at the start of SSC and PvP gear, is how much I should sacrifice my other stats come the release of ZA/new badge loot. At the moment I'm looking at both the shoulders and belt from badges(damn red belt of battle pattern not ever dropping), but both pieces would cost me significant amounts of crit to pick up.

it seems like a lot of the lower ilevel armor penetration gear has a focus on strength as well, making it very good for high consistent damage, at the cost of crit rating.

[Taruo]

Meeks I have a question regarding the rotation.

Would it not be better to open up with a Battle Shout,
so when the the first BT comes up it has the additonal
AP buff, instead of injecting it into the rotation on a cooldown?

Excellent guide by the way!

[nird]

Hey meeks, two questions for you:

1) How's potency working out compared to mongoose in OH? You changed this after the 2.2 patch, right? Any noticable difference?

2) When 2.3 hits I will be going from a fast arena season 2 weapon to a slow arena season 1 weapon in offhand. Now, since it's the offhand, do you think I will get a huge dps loss because of this? Will it be noticable? There's a 6 dps difference on the weapons and very minor stat differences (2 ap, 1 hit and 0.2% crit less).

[Herem]

Source: Taruo Meeks I have a question regarding the rotation. Would it not be better to open up with a Battle Shout, so when the the first BT comes up it has the additonal AP buff, instead of injecting it into the rotation on a cooldown? Excellent guide by the way!

Pre-pull, you should use Bloodrage/Battleshout then start your dps rotation.

[Morthengel]

Just made some work and wanted to share.

Today, I stopped being lazy and went back to the spreadsheet I had from elitistjerks, to do some calculations about Armor Reduction.

The spreadsheet calculates my raid dps ~15% accuracy, so I think that may give good idea. (around 1k dps).

I got the boss armor values from elitistjerks too, and used the following formula: [%Reduction = (Armor / (Armor - 22167.5 + 467.5 * Enemy_Level)) I assumed an average boss, that is having 3800 armor after 5x sunders+feaerie (spelling!) fire.

Here, the enemy being us, so the level is 70. (The formula is meant for tanking purposes originally.)

So I made 11 iterations. Each time decreased the bosses armor by 150 down to 2150, since it is typical value of the penetration we get on a piece of pve gear.

First I calculated the dps for each level of penetration. Then went back to no penetration, and calculated the amount of strength required for each previously calculated dps by trial and error.

I was expecting a considerable scaling, but to my surprise, the scaling effect of armor penetration was not so huge.

2150-->2300 1 strength was equvialent to 4.5 penetration
3650-->3800 1 strength was equvilaent to 5.5 penetration

And obviously, it averaged 5.

So when this is added to the result of my previous calculations (also postedd on this thread), it looks like this:

1str=1crit rating=2hit rating=5Armor reduction

So now when I am going to calculate pverall effectiveness for an item with penetration, I will simply divide the penetration to 5 and add the result to strength.

[Nobody]

Source: Morthengel Just made some work and wanted to share. Today, I stopped being lazy and went back to the spreadsheet I had from elitistjerks, to do some calculations about Armor Reduction. The spreadsheet calculates my raid dps ~15% accuracy, so I think that may give good idea. (around 1k dps). I got the boss armor values from elitistjerks too, and used the following formula: [%Reduction = (Armor / (Armor - 22167.5 + 467.5 * Enemy_Level)) I assumed an average boss, that is having 3800 armor after 5x sunders+feaerie (spelling!) fire. Here, the enemy being us, so the level is 70. (The formula is meant for tanking purposes originally.) So I made 11 iterations. Each time decreased the bosses armor by 150 down to 2150, since it is typical value of the penetration we get on a piece of pve gear. First I calculated the dps for each level of penetration. Then went back to no penetration, and calculated the amount of strength required for each previously calculated dps by trial and error. I was expecting a considerable scaling, but to my surprise, the scaling effect of armor penetration was not so huge. 2150-->2300 1 strength was equvialent to 4.5 penetration 3650-->3800 1 strength was equvilaent to 5.5 penetration And obviously, it averaged 5. So when this is added to the result of my previous calculations (also postedd on this thread), it looks like this: 1str=1crit rating=2hit rating=5Armor reduction So now when I am going to calculate pverall effectiveness for an item with penetration, I will simply divide the penetration to 5 and add the result to strength.

Thanks a ton for working this out. I've been too busy lately too work this out for myself, though I might try and make some time to run some numbers on my own gear. Out of curiosity, which version of the spreadsheet did you run, and what is your general gear level at? I know that since armor pen ends up being a percentage increase to your total damage it scales better at the high end, I'm wondering if your evaluation of 5 armor pen = 1 str is true for where I'm at in gear, or if I should evaluate lower or higher. (For reference, my armory is here )

Changing topics, I've been evaluating haste rating since the nerf as slightly better than hit rating, as it applies to heroic strike/cleave damage as well as auto-attack, but otherwise seems to be functionally the same. Is there anything important I'm missing here as far as other differences between the two?

[Morthengel]

The version I use is Warrior_0[1].1.1.3. I nerfed windfury and haste in this spreadsheet myself and added some of my gear that was missing here. So it will be better if you get a newer version.

I prioritize rage dump instead of gcd dump, by this way the spreadsheet doesnt spam hamstring while simulating my dps. (This was old strategy to proc windfury before the nerf). Instead it spams heroic strike.

You are right, the benefit of armor penetration depends on your current dps. My gear is T5 level. Here are my stats:

1982AP (no BS)
33%crit
170hit

I did some work on the haste effects. But was unable to find anything meaningful. The results seemed to be fluctuating a lot and was unstable. Still working on it. If someone can come up with something it will be great.

[Tegh]

Hey there, I've been reading this guide for quite some time, since I used to raid as Prot but quit about three months ago (after we downed Hydross and Void Reaver) and have since been a pvp freak and now recently restarted raiding as fury under another guild. We're currently 4/6 SSC and 1/4 TK.

I was wondering if anyone could explain the following combat log; http://wowwebstats.com/amv5r5jlkggvm

I have missed quite a few special attacks according to this log, and I have around 185-205 hit rating depending on what gear I wear. I think I had carrot on a stick equipped in that fight too. -_-

Anyway, I would like to know if anyone knows why my specials missed when I have above 100 hit rating, it seems to go against what was wrote in this guide. Or maybe I'm confusing myself as I'm new to these online logs.

Thanks in advance.

EDIT: Here's my Armory URL: http://eu.wowarmory.com/character-sh...ollbane&n=Tegh

[Signu]

If you do not have precision, you need 142 hit rating to be at 9%

EDIT:

EDIT: Here's my Armory URL:

OK NVM

[Herem]

Source: Tegh Hey there, I've been reading this guide for quite some time, since I used to raid as Prot but quit about three months ago (after we downed Hydross and Void Reaver) and have since been a pvp freak and now recently restarted raiding as fury under another guild. We're currently 4/6 SSC and 1/4 TK. I was wondering if anyone could explain the following combat log; http://wowwebstats.com/amv5r5jlkggvm I have missed quite a few special attacks according to this log, and I have around 185-205 hit rating depending on what gear I wear. I think I had carrot on a stick equipped in that fight too. -_- Anyway, I would like to know if anyone knows why my specials missed when I have above 100 hit rating, it seems to go against what was wrote in this guide. Or maybe I'm confusing myself as I'm new to these online logs. Thanks in advance. EDIT: Here's my Armory URL: http://eu.wowarmory.com/character-sh...ollbane&n=Tegh

You specials didn't miss because of your hit rating. They missed due to Dodges and Parries. Extend the log to see the more detailed information.

Or are you asking why you were dodged or parried so much?

That's a coin toss, well at least until the patch comes with Expertise

You know this already, try to attack from behind as much as possible for the parries. Great Fury warriors have great rotations whether they have to move or not (key bindings and - no clicking hotbars , and are able to stay behind the mob at all times, even its running a muck. For dodges get expertise come the patch, it will also help with teh 1-2% parries you get over a night, from bosses turning, i.e. lurker in spout.

It looks like you just got unlucky with the limited specials you were able to do in the fight. And your crit rate on HS was really unlucky.

Were you threat capped? If not try to do more HS's and get your White damage closer to 35%. Rage shouldn't be an issue since you can get as much of it you want in that encounter.

But overall top 3, good stuff.

[Tegh]

Source: Herem You specials didn't miss because of your hit rating. They missed due to Dodges and Parries. Extend the log to see the more detailed information. Or are you asking why you were dodged or parried so much? That's a coin toss, well at least until the patch comes with Expertise You know this already, try to attack from behind as much as possible for the parries. Great Fury warriors have great rotations whether they have to move or not (key bindings and - no clicking hotbars , and are able to stay behind the mob at all times, even its running a muck. For dodges get expertise come the patch, it will also help with teh 1-2% parries you get over a night, from bosses turning, i.e. lurker in spout. It looks like you just got unlucky with the limited specials you were able to do in the fight. And your crit rate on HS was really unlucky. Were you threat capped? If not try to do more HS's and get your White damage closer to 35%. Rage shouldn't be an issue since you can get as much of it you want in that encounter. But overall top 3, good stuff.

Yeah the parries would have been where I had to move out of the cave ins, or where I had to readjust because the tanks were moving, but I didn't know about extending the stats so ty for that.

I was pretty close to over aggroing when he hit 10% so I had to ease off with the executes, having been just under the two tanks before 20%. Atm I'm going for AP / crit more than hit - need a better main hand though so I crafted dragonmaw last night and working on getting the nethers once I respecc back to fury on Sunday.

Ty for your help mate.