[Meeks]

Source: Alchamire This is a good guide and worth reading Meeks, but I do have to agree with TheZ and Cryinfreeman about the hit. While DWing with low hit my DPS went down in all categories. My guild uses Wow Web Stats for our raids and we pay close attention to the after math. On older raids when I was still DW Fury 50% + of my damage came from my basic Melee Attacks. The rest of it came from my specials. Another example would be our rogues that both have 280-300 hit rating (19-20% hit) and their white damage veries from about 55-70% of their total damage done. In conclusion, if I were specced for DWing I would stack +hit. White damage alone will always be superior to your specials.

Warriors are not rogues.

Rogues get many bonuses for stacking hit:
1) Combat potency: more hits = more energy = more low threat damage
2) Poisons: more hits = more procs
3) Thier dual wield spec is +50% instead of our +25%
4) They do not have an ability that stacks abornally well with AP like Bloodthirst


More hit is always good, however, that does not mean it is your most important stat. Crit and str scale with every single one of your attacks...not half of them.

[Daylanor]

You forget windfury is only affected by white attacks.
More hit% = more windfury totem procs

And getting 200 hit rating from pre kara gear is very easy. It's only when you start gearing up properly in 25mans that your hit % will take a dive. This is ok since the gains you get from the crit/ap upgrades are worth it.
But still you would be standing on 180+hit rating. So I do stand with Cryingfreeman on about how hit is very important and that you are downplaying it's importance in your guide way to much.

[Morthengel]

as this is my first reply to a post in this site, first I would like to say that this is the most good looking, clean, and informative website I have ever seen.

And the guide is well written, well rounded, easy and to the point.

I full agree with Meeks on the hit rating. Currently I am sitting around 175 hit, 32.6%crit and 1.9k AP unbuffed, and with 17/44 I am enjoying the top 1-5 positions (depending on the fight, death, and # of beers) on dmg meters in the raids easily. As an indication of my guilds dps output, I can say that Fathom lord dies when there are 4:30+ minutes on his enrage timer.

I downloaded eitistjerks spreadsheet and made calculations, in each step decreasing hit% by 1.3 and increasing crit% by 1%. Dps continued to increase, at 6% hit it turned downwards and started to decrease.

Now, we all know these spreadsheets are not very accurate, if you have such low hit rating, for sure you will have rage gen issues, and your MH will miss which will cripple your dps.

I didn't dwell into the comparison of crit against AP, but there will be some diminishing returns with crit due to flurry uptime very slowly converging to zero, which is not a case for AP. So, AP is ultimately most important stat.

But 200+ hit rating definitely can not be a requirement fo a fury warrior. Because opposite to rogues, we dont get any specials or bonuses from hitting, but we get them from critting: impale+flurry+deep wounds+chance to reapply rampage, and I have a lot of rage I dont know what to do with.



(Heroic strike, shhh!! "shifty eyes")

[fastidius]

deep wounds doesn't necessarily help if you keep refreshing it, It takes 3 seconds before it ticks and if its reapplied it doesn't tick at all....

I think that the additional hit rating just allows you to remove precision from your tree and add other talents without serious dps loss.

[fastidius]

if you can generate enough rage to maintain your BT/WW.HS rotation then adding additional HS swings will increase your DPS more than hits due to crits/Flurry uptime. The down side is you may be threat capped and need to pause your BT/WW cycles

[Meeks]

Source: fastidius deep wounds doesn't necessarily help if you keep refreshing it, It takes 3 seconds before it ticks and if its reapplied it doesn't tick at all.... I think that the additional hit rating just allows you to remove precision from your tree and add other talents without serious dps loss.

The deep wounds points are to get impale. Plus even with constant refreshing I still get about 2-4% of my damage from deep wounds on a fight.

As to precision...there are no other places to put points to get a dps increase. Plus precision is a good talent and worth the three points.

[Morthengel]

Applied what the guide says in the past few days. Currently sitting at 170hit, 1.9k unbuffed AP (without BS) and 33% crit, mainly T5 level gear.

With these stats, I am competing with our rogues, in fact only 2 of our rogues can outdps me, wit a small margin. I suppose this is a good result, sine we are not supposed to outdps them right? They are the dps baseline.

The other fury warrior, who has 245 hit, 28.5% crit and 1.7k AP doing 20% less dps than me.

Thanks for this guide,I am now a happy warrior .

At the beginning of the fight it is becoming a bit slow if I get a string of misses or can't crit tho, till I get my first crit, to build some rage, get flurry and activate rampage. But I open with Abacus to smooth the slow start curve. Once I get a crit, I start dpsing like a madman. Flurry active most of the time, mongooses proc, deathwish, rampage, bloodlust brooch. If the tank is good or the fight is not agro sensitive (Mag, Karathress) I can just go nuts with heroic strike.

What I noticed in such fights is, the aim should be to stay at 40-60 rage range. The rage above 60 should be burnt down with hs, and minimum 40 should be kept in for the next use of BT/WW/rampage. Then it becomes very consistent.

Should also try to keep trinkets, DW, and recklessness on cooldown all the time, but of course also preventing unefficient use (not activate when the mob is about to die).

[Alchamire]

Heres some things I've been pondering some time.

Crusader VS Mongoose

Crusader proc = Heals for a vary small amount, grants 60 Strength at level 70. 60 Strength = 120 AP for Warriors.

Mongoose proc = Increases attack speed by 2%, grants 120 Agility. 120 Agility at level 70 is about 3-4% crit. For a Rogue the 120 Agility = 120 AP.

From my experiences Mongoose procs ALOT more than Crusader. I've read alot of discussions about PPM for different enchants and agree strongly with some, and totally disagree with others. Using [Merciless Gladiator's Quickblade] with Mongoose in my offhand and [The Planar Edge] with Crusader in my main, the Mongoose seems to proc much more than Crusader. Whether its because of weapon speed or not, I am still unsure of.

What do you guys think? Mongoose VS Crusader, which one is really better for a level 70 level DW Fury Warrior? I can see going for Crusader if you already have good +Crit, but if you lack in crit Mongoose is an easy fix for it.
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Slow offhand VS Fast offhand

One thing that I've really been wondering about lately is how well does DW spec scale with Slow vs Fast offhands? Adding +25% to your offhand damage sounds good and all, but adding that damage for a weapon that has a top end damage of 200 and speed of 1.5 VS an offhand with a top end of 300 and a speed of 2.6. 200 + 25% = 250, while 300 + 25% = 375. In theory with the 1.5 speed weapon you can do 500 damage in 3 seconds, while with the slower 2.6 secs you'll only get in one hit of up to 375 in 3 seconds. What about when flurry procs though? Or any other speed item/trinket/buff/etc you have to speed up your attack? From my understanding the more your attack speed increases, the more the damage is normalized and decreases per hit. Wouldn't this make it better to have a slower offhand for when Flurry procs? 2.6 goes to 1.95, just slightly faster than the 1.5 offhand and hitting for more even though damage per hit scales down with haste? 1.5 becomes 1.125 when Flurry procs, but won't the damage scale down with the haste?

If my theory is correct, then that would mean that the only reason to take a fast offhand is in hopes of getting more hits in thus increase your chance for crits for Flurry and to proc enchants/weapon abilities. Who needs to worry about getting more hits in with their offhand for crits when its your mainhand specials that you need to have crit the most? With Impale I'm more worried about getting crits with my yellow damage in than with my offhand. Another good reason to have a slow offhand that I can think of is that if you crit with your offhand, you leave Deep Wounds. Who the heck wants to leave a Deep Wound up on a mob/boss during a mobile fight like Gruul that you can easily get 5-10% of your damage in from bleed affects while using a dagger with the top end damage of 200? Yeah, thats gonna leave one hell of a Deep Wound... (sarcasm). With a slow offhand you have more time between hits from your main to off and will be more likely to get better use out of your Deep Wounds. I know its not every body's goal to get alot of bleed damage in, but its just something to think about.

Everyone's feed back is much appreciated. I would like to hear alot of different thoughts on this. Thanks.

[Smash]

I've been lurking around here for a few weeks. I stumbled across this guide on the warrior forums first, then I noticed it here.

For the longest time I was focusing on hit. Before I read this, I had 304 hit rating and ~ 1700 attack power in zerker. I didn't think I was doing anything wrong, my attacks were hitting for a good amount and I would almost never miss..... that is of course till I stumbled on this guide.

Long story short I was stuborn for a long long time, but a few days after reading this thread I started taking all my +hit gems out and started stacking strength. Over the last few weeks I got a few upgrades (red belt of battle and the legs of solarian). I dropped my hit rating to a still high 211 and upped my attack power in zerker stance by 250.

I also learned a bunch from the attack rotation and speccing for raids.(right now I have 2/2 imp WW cause I wasn't paying attention and clicked once to much........sigh)

The difference is extremely noticeable and I just wanted to stop by and say thanks for putting the time in to make the guide.

Thanks!

[Daylanor]

Alchamire:

DW spec ads 25% to the 50% dmg on the OH for a total dmg of 62,5% on the OH. (It's 25% off 50%, not on 100% )

And you calculate on the dps of the weapon not the top end . Though I see where your thoughts lie.

And this games does go with the averega on everything, you factored in top end...think about the low end. There the slow one would come ahead.

Always go for the average (which weapon dps is) and take it from there .

Deep Wounds is refreshed with every crit, and since we don't get "a more powerfull spell is already on the target" messages when we crit with our off hand with a prior BT/MH crit I will assume that the MH is always used for reference for Deep Wounds.

Edit: And seriously Alchamire you have way to much hit for a 2h spec. 9% is the limit of usefulness, anything above is totally wasted.