[Meeks]

Source: Alchamire This is a good guide and worth reading Meeks, but I do have to agree with TheZ and Cryinfreeman about the hit. While DWing with low hit my DPS went down in all categories. My guild uses Wow Web Stats for our raids and we pay close attention to the after math. On older raids when I was still DW Fury 50% + of my damage came from my basic Melee Attacks. The rest of it came from my specials. Another example would be our rogues that both have 280-300 hit rating (19-20% hit) and their white damage veries from about 55-70% of their total damage done. In conclusion, if I were specced for DWing I would stack +hit. White damage alone will always be superior to your specials.

Warriors are not rogues.

Rogues get many bonuses for stacking hit:
1) Combat potency: more hits = more energy = more low threat damage
2) Poisons: more hits = more procs
3) Thier dual wield spec is +50% instead of our +25%
4) They do not have an ability that stacks abornally well with AP like Bloodthirst


More hit is always good, however, that does not mean it is your most important stat. Crit and str scale with every single one of your attacks...not half of them.

[Daylanor]

You forget windfury is only affected by white attacks.
More hit% = more windfury totem procs

And getting 200 hit rating from pre kara gear is very easy. It's only when you start gearing up properly in 25mans that your hit % will take a dive. This is ok since the gains you get from the crit/ap upgrades are worth it.
But still you would be standing on 180+hit rating. So I do stand with Cryingfreeman on about how hit is very important and that you are downplaying it's importance in your guide way to much.

[Morthengel]

as this is my first reply to a post in this site, first I would like to say that this is the most good looking, clean, and informative website I have ever seen.

And the guide is well written, well rounded, easy and to the point.

I full agree with Meeks on the hit rating. Currently I am sitting around 175 hit, 32.6%crit and 1.9k AP unbuffed, and with 17/44 I am enjoying the top 1-5 positions (depending on the fight, death, and # of beers) on dmg meters in the raids easily. As an indication of my guilds dps output, I can say that Fathom lord dies when there are 4:30+ minutes on his enrage timer.

I downloaded eitistjerks spreadsheet and made calculations, in each step decreasing hit% by 1.3 and increasing crit% by 1%. Dps continued to increase, at 6% hit it turned downwards and started to decrease.

Now, we all know these spreadsheets are not very accurate, if you have such low hit rating, for sure you will have rage gen issues, and your MH will miss which will cripple your dps.

I didn't dwell into the comparison of crit against AP, but there will be some diminishing returns with crit due to flurry uptime very slowly converging to zero, which is not a case for AP. So, AP is ultimately most important stat.

But 200+ hit rating definitely can not be a requirement fo a fury warrior. Because opposite to rogues, we dont get any specials or bonuses from hitting, but we get them from critting: impale+flurry+deep wounds+chance to reapply rampage, and I have a lot of rage I dont know what to do with.



(Heroic strike, shhh!! "shifty eyes")

[fastidius]

deep wounds doesn't necessarily help if you keep refreshing it, It takes 3 seconds before it ticks and if its reapplied it doesn't tick at all....

I think that the additional hit rating just allows you to remove precision from your tree and add other talents without serious dps loss.

[fastidius]

if you can generate enough rage to maintain your BT/WW.HS rotation then adding additional HS swings will increase your DPS more than hits due to crits/Flurry uptime. The down side is you may be threat capped and need to pause your BT/WW cycles

[Meeks]

Source: fastidius deep wounds doesn't necessarily help if you keep refreshing it, It takes 3 seconds before it ticks and if its reapplied it doesn't tick at all.... I think that the additional hit rating just allows you to remove precision from your tree and add other talents without serious dps loss.

The deep wounds points are to get impale. Plus even with constant refreshing I still get about 2-4% of my damage from deep wounds on a fight.

As to precision...there are no other places to put points to get a dps increase. Plus precision is a good talent and worth the three points.

[Morthengel]

Applied what the guide says in the past few days. Currently sitting at 170hit, 1.9k unbuffed AP (without BS) and 33% crit, mainly T5 level gear.

With these stats, I am competing with our rogues, in fact only 2 of our rogues can outdps me, wit a small margin. I suppose this is a good result, sine we are not supposed to outdps them right? They are the dps baseline.

The other fury warrior, who has 245 hit, 28.5% crit and 1.7k AP doing 20% less dps than me.

Thanks for this guide,I am now a happy warrior .

At the beginning of the fight it is becoming a bit slow if I get a string of misses or can't crit tho, till I get my first crit, to build some rage, get flurry and activate rampage. But I open with Abacus to smooth the slow start curve. Once I get a crit, I start dpsing like a madman. Flurry active most of the time, mongooses proc, deathwish, rampage, bloodlust brooch. If the tank is good or the fight is not agro sensitive (Mag, Karathress) I can just go nuts with heroic strike.

What I noticed in such fights is, the aim should be to stay at 40-60 rage range. The rage above 60 should be burnt down with hs, and minimum 40 should be kept in for the next use of BT/WW/rampage. Then it becomes very consistent.

Should also try to keep trinkets, DW, and recklessness on cooldown all the time, but of course also preventing unefficient use (not activate when the mob is about to die).

[Alchamire]

Heres some things I've been pondering some time.

Crusader VS Mongoose

Crusader proc = Heals for a vary small amount, grants 60 Strength at level 70. 60 Strength = 120 AP for Warriors.

Mongoose proc = Increases attack speed by 2%, grants 120 Agility. 120 Agility at level 70 is about 3-4% crit. For a Rogue the 120 Agility = 120 AP.

From my experiences Mongoose procs ALOT more than Crusader. I've read alot of discussions about PPM for different enchants and agree strongly with some, and totally disagree with others. Using [item]Merciless Gladiator's Quickblade[/item] with Mongoose in my offhand and [item]The Planar Edge[/item] with Crusader in my main, the Mongoose seems to proc much more than Crusader. Whether its because of weapon speed or not, I am still unsure of.

What do you guys think? Mongoose VS Crusader, which one is really better for a level 70 level DW Fury Warrior? I can see going for Crusader if you already have good +Crit, but if you lack in crit Mongoose is an easy fix for it.
------------------------------------------------------------------------


Slow offhand VS Fast offhand

One thing that I've really been wondering about lately is how well does DW spec scale with Slow vs Fast offhands? Adding +25% to your offhand damage sounds good and all, but adding that damage for a weapon that has a top end damage of 200 and speed of 1.5 VS an offhand with a top end of 300 and a speed of 2.6. 200 + 25% = 250, while 300 + 25% = 375. In theory with the 1.5 speed weapon you can do 500 damage in 3 seconds, while with the slower 2.6 secs you'll only get in one hit of up to 375 in 3 seconds. What about when flurry procs though? Or any other speed item/trinket/buff/etc you have to speed up your attack? From my understanding the more your attack speed increases, the more the damage is normalized and decreases per hit. Wouldn't this make it better to have a slower offhand for when Flurry procs? 2.6 goes to 1.95, just slightly faster than the 1.5 offhand and hitting for more even though damage per hit scales down with haste? 1.5 becomes 1.125 when Flurry procs, but won't the damage scale down with the haste?

If my theory is correct, then that would mean that the only reason to take a fast offhand is in hopes of getting more hits in thus increase your chance for crits for Flurry and to proc enchants/weapon abilities. Who needs to worry about getting more hits in with their offhand for crits when its your mainhand specials that you need to have crit the most? With Impale I'm more worried about getting crits with my yellow damage in than with my offhand. Another good reason to have a slow offhand that I can think of is that if you crit with your offhand, you leave Deep Wounds. Who the heck wants to leave a Deep Wound up on a mob/boss during a mobile fight like Gruul that you can easily get 5-10% of your damage in from bleed affects while using a dagger with the top end damage of 200? Yeah, thats gonna leave one hell of a Deep Wound... (sarcasm). With a slow offhand you have more time between hits from your main to off and will be more likely to get better use out of your Deep Wounds. I know its not every body's goal to get alot of bleed damage in, but its just something to think about.

Everyone's feed back is much appreciated. I would like to hear alot of different thoughts on this. Thanks.

[Smash]

I've been lurking around here for a few weeks. I stumbled across this guide on the warrior forums first, then I noticed it here.

For the longest time I was focusing on hit. Before I read this, I had 304 hit rating and ~ 1700 attack power in zerker. I didn't think I was doing anything wrong, my attacks were hitting for a good amount and I would almost never miss..... that is of course till I stumbled on this guide.

Long story short I was stuborn for a long long time, but a few days after reading this thread I started taking all my +hit gems out and started stacking strength. Over the last few weeks I got a few upgrades (red belt of battle and the legs of solarian). I dropped my hit rating to a still high 211 and upped my attack power in zerker stance by 250.

I also learned a bunch from the attack rotation and speccing for raids.(right now I have 2/2 imp WW cause I wasn't paying attention and clicked once to much........sigh)

The difference is extremely noticeable and I just wanted to stop by and say thanks for putting the time in to make the guide.

Thanks!

[Daylanor]

Alchamire:

DW spec ads 25% to the 50% dmg on the OH for a total dmg of 62,5% on the OH. (It's 25% off 50%, not on 100% )

And you calculate on the dps of the weapon not the top end . Though I see where your thoughts lie.

And this games does go with the averega on everything, you factored in top end...think about the low end. There the slow one would come ahead.

Always go for the average (which weapon dps is) and take it from there .

Deep Wounds is refreshed with every crit, and since we don't get "a more powerfull spell is already on the target" messages when we crit with our off hand with a prior BT/MH crit I will assume that the MH is always used for reference for Deep Wounds.

Edit: And seriously Alchamire you have way to much hit for a 2h spec. 9% is the limit of usefulness, anything above is totally wasted.

[Kawfek]

Meeks,

I love the guide...it has set some of my guildies on thier but when a blue gear DW warrior sits 8-11th in SSC on dmg charts (8th for trash 10-11th boss). But I want to be near the rouges in the top 5. I have looked at the gear list from the Bliz site and wondered, like you said, are the best rated pieces the best. I found the following totals (for the gear they rated, which did not include trinkets, sockets, and weapons):

AC: 22,292
Str: 433
Agi: 0 (thats zero btw)
Sta: 422
AP: 248
Crit: 258
Hit: 159
Haste: 169
looking at this I went that can't be right...so would you grace us Unknowing with what your current "Perfect Gear" list would be?

[Signu]

Source: Daylanor DW spec ads 25% to the 50% dmg on the OH for a total dmg of 62,5% on the OH. (It's 25% off 50%, not on 100% )

I'm pretty sure you are wrong here. Everywhere else in the game percentages are additive. Take Poleaxe spec. If you have 20% base crit and then take Poleaxe spec, you now have a 25% chance to crit with axes and polearms, not 21% (5% of 20 is 1). Assume you have 5% chance to hit. Taking Precision bumps you up to 8%, not 6.15% (3% of 5 is 1.15). Unless you have hard data to prove your statement, I am disinclined to believe you.

[Alchamire]

Source: Daylanor Edit: And seriously Alchamire you have way to much hit for a 2h spec. 9% is the limit of usefulness, anything above is totally wasted.

I was playing around with this actually, and in SSC and even Gruuls I still seem to miss more than I thought I would with this much hit. I don't plan on switching out my +hit gear because I plan on going back to DW Fury onces I get my [item]The Planar Edge[/item] upgraded to [item]Black Planar Edge[/item], from there I have 2/5 Nether Vortexes to craft the [item]Wicked Edge of the Planes[/item] and can get the last three easily. I had thought about replacing some of the +hit/crit gems with 8 strength gems, but the gear I have them on I plan on replacing soon.

[Daylanor]

Source: Signu I'm pretty sure you are wrong here. Everywhere else in the game percentages are additive. Take Poleaxe spec. If you have 20% base crit and then take Poleaxe spec, you now have a 25% chance to crit with axes and polearms, not 21% (5% of 20 is 1). Assume you have 5% chance to hit. Taking Precision bumps you up to 8%, not 6.15% (3% of 5 is 1.15). Unless you have hard data to prove your statement, I am disinclined to believe you.

Nope this has been like this since Blizz introduced DW spec.

Tested and tested again. The data is so old that no one bothers so say it anymore, simply presumed everyone knows this.

Because we get rage from the extra dmg increase.

[Daylanor]

Source: Kawfek Meeks, I love the guide...it has set some of my guildies on thier but when a blue gear DW warrior sits 8-11th in SSC on dmg charts (8th for trash 10-11th boss). But I want to be near the rouges in the top 5. I have looked at the gear list from the Bliz site and wondered, like you said, are the best rated pieces the best. I found the following totals (for the gear they rated, which did not include trinkets, sockets, and weapons): AC: 22,292 Str: 433 Agi: 0 (thats zero btw) Sta: 422 AP: 248 Crit: 258 Hit: 159 Haste: 169 looking at this I went that can't be right...so would you grace us Unknowing with what your current "Perfect Gear" list would be?

You have to add allt he stats you have when you have 0 gear on as well .

[Kawfek]

I'm not completely Woolheaded, but that just doesn't seem like that would be the best combo of gear. I was asking for what the best set of complete gear would be for DW warriors at this point in the game.

[fastidius]

fast offhand is only there for rage, ideally if your able to keep rotation with you slower offhand its better for both flurry and dps (vindicator's brand) is an example of a good offhand pre kara.

Also it would appear that switching offhand to mainhand when flurry is up can be useful. I am playing with a macro that swaps swords and whirlwinds but i'm not too sure if that works properly due to swapping times. I might play with a timer on it , swapping 1-1.5 seconds before WW arrives to use may work better.....

[Morthengel]

Currently I am using a fast offhand. Have nice rage generation. Also tried slow offhand, and i can't say dps is affected. A bit less flurry procs, but more flurried MH attacks. If there is a change in dps, it should be +- 0.1%. On the other hand, I did not feel confident with the rage generation with a slow offhand. a few misses can make you starve for rage.

I think up to 1.8 is ok. Stats are important to.

[Daylanor]

Source: Kawfek I'm not completely Woolheaded, but that just doesn't seem like that would be the best combo of gear. I was asking for what the best set of complete gear would be for DW warriors at this point in the game.

Well I went through wowhead and came up with this gear

My base stats (naked Nelf)
Str: 142 (284AP)
Agi: 101 (3% crit)
Stm: 132
Int: 33
Spir: 51
Armor: 202

Total from gear:
Armour: 9296 (2pts Armour for 1agi)
Attack Power: 1482
Hit: 15%
Crit: 13%
HP: 4690
Ignore 406 armour
Haste 123 rating (11,7% or in 2.2 8,2%)
- 2% Threat
+ 3% Crit dmg

Head:
Onslaught Battle-Helm - Items - World of Warcraft + 34AP+16hit
+4str meta, red.

Chest:
Midnight Chestguard - Items - World of Warcraft +6 all stats
+8AP, blue, red, yellow

Boots:
Dreadboots of the Legion - Items - World of Warcraft +12 agi
+3str, yellow, yellow

Gloves:
Grips of Silent Justice - Items - World of Warcraft +15 str
+4stm, red, red

Legs:
Legguards of Endless Rage - Items - World of Warcraft +50AP+12agi

Shoulders:
Blood-stained Pauldrons - Items - World of Warcraft +30AP+10crit (aldor)

Belt:
Belt of Seething Fury - Items - World of Warcraft

Bracers:
Swiftsteel Bracers - Items - World of Warcraft +12str

Cloak:
Shadowmoon Destroyer's Drape - Items - World of Warcraft -threat

Neck:
Choker of Endless Nightmares - Items - World of Warcraft

Ring1:
Band of Devastation - Items - World of Warcraft

Ring2:
Stormrage Signet Ring - Items - World of Warcraft

Weapon MH: Mongoose
Rising Tide - Items - World of Warcraft

Weapon OH: +20str
Swiftsteel Bludgeon - Items - World of Warcraft

Ranged:
Serpent Spine Longbow - Items - World of Warcraft


Gear stats + gems + enchants:
Armour: 1483+474+1213+1103+1650+1324+993+772+118 =9130
Str: 54+38+40+70+47+48+35+6+15+12+20+12+4+4+3+20 = 428
Agi: 41+6+12+12+12 = 83
Stamina: 54+64+40+37+61+34+37+32+24+6+6+4+44+33+33+15 = 469
Gem: 1 Meta (12agi, 3%added crit dmg), 4 Red (8str), 3 yellow (4crit/4str), 1 blue (4str, 6stm)
Hit:29+18+15+19+23+17+16+21+30+21+19 = 228
Crit:46+30+46+32+24+10+27+15 = 230
AP:106+72+8+34+50+30+72+66+66+44+40+38 = 626
Special: Ignore 105+175+126 armour. Haste rating 38+27+31+27

[Rhaeti]

A slow offhand benefits from better scaling with haste, less wasted flurry charges, and if it is the same speed as your main hand you can get 4 charges from flurry sometimes.

Can you elaborate on this a bit? I'm having trouble understanding how flurry can be wasted just with a faster offhand weapon. Also, I don't understand this four flurry charges thing. I thought it just lasted three after a crit? Do you mean it's easier to keep flurry always up since you're swinging slower?