Yogg-Saron...The epitome of Failure.
Posted 06-30-2009 at 01:58 AM by Wars
So, my guild <Red Dragon Society> has been wiping on Yogg Saron for going on, I want to say 12 Nights of real wipes on him. Probably about 20+ hours total on him that are just wipe after wipe after wipe.
I'm quite fed up with this. It is always someone doing something stupid, brain link damaging their sanity leading to them being MC'd after a portal. Standing in an eyebeam. Walking next to a crusher to get into their portal. D/Cs. Bad dps. Goign to sanity wells that are just way outside of where they should be going.
I've tried to do everything I can for anyone that does't understand the fight. We have our best dps in there almost all the time. We raid late night and don't have the recruitment pool that most regular guilds do and have ended up with some less-than-stellar players overall.
I just get far too stressed about this. I've been playing this game since late 2004 and I expect that other people give a shit about their performance as much as I do.
I expect people to really pay attention and strive for 100% rotation perfection, along with the highest #s they can put up, while knowing they are situationally aware of EVERYTHING going on at once.
In my opinion, if you can't pay attention to: Crusher position, your sanity, your rotation, your health, the health of those around you, constrictor uptime, portal timers, brain links, malady's of the mind all at the same time, you're screwing it up.
Seemsl like a lot but as a tank I think its our role that makes us more situationally aware and I find it rare that dps and healers maintain this type of awareness in encounters.
Thorim for instance. I can tank him, keep my rotation/cds going 100%, stay out of blizzard, lightning and pay attention to positioning and timers along with how many buff stacks he has and I can check and reckeck these things within 3 seconds of each other.
WHY CAN"T PEOPLE DO THIS!?!?
I have a few options here. I can stick it out with RDS and either; chill out, or have a heart attack. Or, I can level my gnome war or draenei paladin on proudmoore and just wait for 3.2 to find a guild.
Will RDS kill Yogg before 3.2? Yes, I believe we will. Will I have a heart attack due to how badly people play the game before that? I think so.
What do I do? I've been so upset almost every night because people that screw up DO NOT GET BETTER. Its the same bullshit every single attempt. Standing in clouds, standing next to crushers, low dps, missing portals, taking other people's portals, getting MC'd, walking away from the group only to get a constrictor on you.
I'm quite fed up with this. It is always someone doing something stupid, brain link damaging their sanity leading to them being MC'd after a portal. Standing in an eyebeam. Walking next to a crusher to get into their portal. D/Cs. Bad dps. Goign to sanity wells that are just way outside of where they should be going.
I've tried to do everything I can for anyone that does't understand the fight. We have our best dps in there almost all the time. We raid late night and don't have the recruitment pool that most regular guilds do and have ended up with some less-than-stellar players overall.
I just get far too stressed about this. I've been playing this game since late 2004 and I expect that other people give a shit about their performance as much as I do.
I expect people to really pay attention and strive for 100% rotation perfection, along with the highest #s they can put up, while knowing they are situationally aware of EVERYTHING going on at once.
In my opinion, if you can't pay attention to: Crusher position, your sanity, your rotation, your health, the health of those around you, constrictor uptime, portal timers, brain links, malady's of the mind all at the same time, you're screwing it up.
Seemsl like a lot but as a tank I think its our role that makes us more situationally aware and I find it rare that dps and healers maintain this type of awareness in encounters.
Thorim for instance. I can tank him, keep my rotation/cds going 100%, stay out of blizzard, lightning and pay attention to positioning and timers along with how many buff stacks he has and I can check and reckeck these things within 3 seconds of each other.
WHY CAN"T PEOPLE DO THIS!?!?
I have a few options here. I can stick it out with RDS and either; chill out, or have a heart attack. Or, I can level my gnome war or draenei paladin on proudmoore and just wait for 3.2 to find a guild.
Will RDS kill Yogg before 3.2? Yes, I believe we will. Will I have a heart attack due to how badly people play the game before that? I think so.
What do I do? I've been so upset almost every night because people that screw up DO NOT GET BETTER. Its the same bullshit every single attempt. Standing in clouds, standing next to crushers, low dps, missing portals, taking other people's portals, getting MC'd, walking away from the group only to get a constrictor on you.
Total Comments 9
Comments
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Amen to that! Its one of the things that's been driving me to madness lately in Ulduar.
I love my guild to bits, but some of them just make me want to rip my hair out in raw frustration. We're recently reached 12/14 in Ulduar 25 ourselves, and pretty much just started our wonderous Yogg-Saron wipefests.
I don't expect perfection, but every time I see people getting hit by glaringly obvious effects (e.g. Mimiron Shock Blast, Iron Council Overload) I die a little inside. Especially when I'm tanking, moving out of them myself and I can SEE them about to eat it. Yet somehow they can't as they're too damn focused on their rotations.
The worst offender we have is a feral cat druid, but I've got to admit I'm not sympathetic in the slightest given some of the ridiculous questions/suggestions he comes out with. Feral druids may have a complex DPS rotation, but no, just no. That doesn't make missing the massive blue "SHOCK BLAST - MOVE" and "Run away little girl, RUN AWAY" warnings acceptable.
Sometimes I just wish people would use their heads for once. So far on our limited Yogg-Saron tries we've been working with a 2-tank strategy and in phase 1 we have me taunting the mobs off at about 30% health and taking them to Sara, which works fine unless I get blocked off by the clouds and need to take a long route around, taking time. When that happens, we find people just blindly nuke the next add into submission despite the fact I'm not ready to pick it up. We've managed to barely get them into position before they explode if someone calls out "STOP ON THE ADD DAMNIT!", but it shouldn't need that.
I'm expecting to be stuck on Yogg-Saron for a long time as well, like you - our Sartharion+3 took what felt like forever to actually get due to people constantly dying to void zones/flame walls, and we only managed it once. I'm eager to get my teeth into Ulduar hard modes but again, I'm dreading to think what'll happen when people need to show some proper initiative as right now, it feels like the majority need to be spoonfed by the minority.
Good luck with Yoggy, hopefully you'll get the break it sounds like you desperately need some time soon.Posted 06-30-2009 at 04:40 AM by Zorzil 
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I think you're generalising too much and that can hold you back.
Instead of saying things like: people can't perform, dps has no situational awareness, the raid fails etc. etc.
Instead of saying things like that you should first look closely at which player makes what mistakes in the fight. The things you will notice is that there are some players who never make mistakes, (yes also dps-ers) and some who make more mistakes then others.
You don't need to address the players who make little to no mistakes but you do have to weed out the players who do often.
Because yes, you're a team. And yes if 1 players fails, sometimes the raid fails. But.........act........make the individuals betters, or substitute them, no need to address your anger at the ones who are playing fine.
(ensidiafals is a nice "big brother" mo which lets you see who fails on what.)Posted 06-30-2009 at 07:15 AM by orcstar - just correcting a typo from orcstar its Ensidiafails. Just incqse people were having trouble finding it
Posted 06-30-2009 at 09:32 AM by Gordonoth -
I like to single people out and threaten them with gkicks. Usually after one of Inaara's "inspirational" speeches, the boss is killed. I would suggest working on your "IIS", Inaara Inspirational Speech.Posted 06-30-2009 at 12:10 PM by Inaara - I had the same thing in Naxx on KT 25 man, most people couldn't pull their heads out of their asses to pay attention to where they were standing to prevent frost blocks and when void zones pop up.
Posted 06-30-2009 at 10:49 PM by Rennadrel - Feel your pain, 3 resets and still YS there. And still people dying in Mirmi at rockets and blasts.
Most players got used to static fights and this is the result. I still see people standing on blue fire on razor. Dying on hodir. You name it.
Just hope the rest of future raids follow this direction, is a good change imo (the wall next to my computer has a few new indentations, but I still thing Ulduar is a great instance)Posted 07-01-2009 at 02:45 AM by hola_adios 
- Personally i see Ulduar as a shining example of how raids should be. The encounters reward and create players who can pay attention to multiple effects at a time while still keeping up an optimal performance, meanwhile, players that already had these skills are improving even more. This makes for a much more alert and ready player base.
However there is a problem with these fights and that is that it simply makes it really hard to pinpoint any kind of flaw that the raid may have.
Take for example Mimiron. My guild defeated him and put him on farm far before I joined. A fight that requires learning 3 mini fights before they form into the voltron of F&*%. Then you need to apply everything you know to burn down three mobs at once before you are finally victorious. It is like the simon says of Raid bosses.
I come into a 10 man Ulduar Off tanking for a godo deal of it. At General the MT switches to his rogue and I am informed that I am to MT this boss. I read up , watch this sites boss strat and generally get to know the fight better than I know the contents of my fridge in about 10 minutes. Then we go, after getting him to 53% the guild explodes into cheers at the wipe. I come to find out that this is the best they have ever done thus far. A frw trys pass, and we wipe at various places. 83, 24, 1%, and so on and so on. He does not die. Upon our re entry into Ulduar we kill him and move on , for the first time into Yogg Sarron.
The fight progresses with the smoothness of sand paper used to clean your dot after a rather explosive date with the toilet and we finally push foreward to Phase 2 reliably.
This proves to be even more of a monstrosity than Phase 1 as dps in the brain go insane, tenticles overwhelm us and people die to mind link. We refine and refine until one thing comes to mind.
"Do we have the gear for this fight." Now it seems absurd to come to a fight and suddenly not have the gear for it. Which may or may not be true. Thinking back to a particular guild run of Patchwork, i remember when it was deemed that we could not progress past him that raid due to our tanks over all hp pools, despite having 2 wings down. So I ask the question.
I recieve mixed results from people, some were wondering the very same thing and others, not so much. One person spoke up and then said the following. "it was like this with mimiron, we simply chipped and chipped at him until we killed him."
A solid theory that tenacity should win the day. It is romantic is it not? However that is not what we are dealing with. It is cold hard numbers. So, I in my less than shining moment ask this brilliant though abrasive question.
"Well then, in the weeks that you worked mimiron down did you stop looting gear? Was everything Disenchanted and thrown to the guild bank? Or did you loot objects and make slivers of difference week by week until you pushed it over the threshhold and to what you needed to secure a sound victory?"
Though less than happy it is a solid question, which allows victory? Gear or tenacity of learning mechanics.
Well , it is obviously both. However I cannot help but wonder as they obviously continued to upgrade themselves for victory, which ultimatly was most responcible for that victory. And so my question will remain unanswered.
Ulduar is a fantastic raid however it unfortunatly shrouds players in mystery when trying to figure out the biggest question after a wipe.
"What seems to be the problem?"Posted 07-01-2009 at 05:26 AM by Culgrim - if you got to yogg then you have the gear for yogg. You shouldn't use that excuse. The fight is just a bit more complex then what people are used to.
Mastering little things such as taking portals asap and opening the brain room quicker and quicker will greatly help your progressPosted 07-01-2009 at 10:43 AM by hbombs - being the tank, there really isn't much I need to do other than phase 1 and 3 o.O
Posted 07-01-2009 at 09:22 PM by Culgrim
