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Stole a ride on the ZA railroad.

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Posted 12-22-2007 at 10:48 PM by veneretio

If you pass go, collect 2 pieces of Loot :P

So the other day, I teamed up with the top horde guild on our server and got a look at a full ZA run. It started off shakie which I would accredit to none of us having run together, (4 of my guild, 6 of theres) but eventually we got truckin' and it was pretty smooth. (the unfortunate repercussions of a shakie start in ZA is the timed event goes out the window) Everything went pretty easy and it was nice to see the 4th boss go down. We've been close to killing him many times, but the reality is that we simply haven't invested much time in ZA (2-3 hours/week is all we ever do).

Which led to the 5th boss... The 5th boss is definitely not caketown. Some have said that Shadow Resist makes it that way, but those same people may have the Shadow Resist gear from Black Temple and not the crappy green stuff that I'll be suiting up my team with. After enough beating our head against the wall we switched out 3 of our guys (everyone but me) for 3 of their guys. This is where we freeze for a moment.

Is it right to stack the group?

As a raid leader I get faced with this dilemma often and I get it thrown in my face as if it's something horrible to do whenever I clearly do it to aid in a kill. It seems to be the one thing that people just don't understand. I get responses like...

"Well of course we can do it if we stack the group, but we can't always do that!"

etc, etc, etc and even more responses along that lines that are all deep seeded in this fear that someone's spot, a spot they feel they've earned, is now gone because their gear isn't good enough or more often than not because their class isn't good enough.

These are fair concerns and until this entry I don't know if I ever really gave these concerns much thought and I don't think I ever really thought about how to handle those concerns until now.

2 Reasons to Stack the Group

1. It's clear that significant time has been spent on the boss and without a dramatic change the group may very well fall apart without killing the boss. (this is what led to 3 of my team being removed)

2. You haven't killed the boss yet.

So by stacking the group, we killed the 5th boss rather easily. I understand why this is done and I had even offered to replace myself for a feral druid, but luckily for me there wasn't one available because the kill netted me a sweet new helm, [item]Battleworn Tuskguard[/item], which is a massive upgrade over my tier 4 helm.

I'll quickly jump back to point out that for the Dragonhawk boss when we go in as a guild next time I won't be taking the 2 Shadow Priests that are in our standard group. We simply can't have them. For the 4th boss they represent one of the worst possible dps classes due to a complete lack of any aoe element. It's not like I want the perfect team, but I'm going to have a Hunter, Warlock or Mage in both of their places and once we've killed him once then I'll start bring 1 of the 2 of them and perhaps once we are really good at the fight I'll bring them both, but I highly doubt it.

So back to ZA, we continue onto Zul'jin and myself and the other tank have been rolling back and forth to decide who tanks.. highest roll wins (interestingly enough I've wanted to dps these fights since I always have to tank and he seems content to tank making the rolls rather pointless) and thankfully I haven't had to tank anything yet.

/roll

Yup, so I'm tanking Zul'jin. Figures. A 5 phase fight that we wipe on the first time due to having too few people up in phase 5. (another aside they like to always stack their groups very melee oriented for this fight... been a while since I remember melee being used to stack a group) The 2nd time around we beat him rather easily despite the raid leader having to yell at me to stop standing in the massive fiery pillar of death. (If there ever was a reason to stack health... being an idoit is up there with a huge benefit to gross amounts of hp) While Zul'jin certainly is not a hard fight to tank at all, it was a lot to absorb and the end of the raid so I'm not going to be too hard on myself for forgetting a rather large element of the last phase on the fight. We did and I won't have to worry about forgetting to move out of fiery pillars next time around.

So how am I rewarded for my newbery? (is that a word?... is now I guess)

[item]Cleaver of the Unforgiving[/item]

There is a certain amount of irony I think in snagging that axe off a boss I scrubbed it up on especially getting it on my first kill. Perhaps Zul'jin is a more forgiving fellow than he let on :P

And that's that. A lot of much needed experience and 2 pieces of loot to show for it. I won't go into the debate as to whether I should have took any loot or the impact it had on my raid group... those are topics for another post hopefully for a post that's significantly shorter than this one.

One final note, thanks E X A L T E D, I know at least one of you will be reading this. :P

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Comments

  1. Old Comment
    Fame's Avatar
    On stacking raids, I don't think that there is anything wrong with that, ever. When you are first learning a new boss you pot up and flask correct? Well why do you do that? Is it not to give you the best adventage in beating the boss? I view stacking groups as means of making the boss die. After you have killed the boss a few times, you helped gear your raid out with purpz that will help killing him all that much easier the next time (as well as providing experiance for your team mates) Now take a scenario where you have the boss on farm but you just dont have the proper group lined up which leads to multiple wipes. The overall moral of the raid goes down and that is where you are forced to save multiple lives at the expence of a few (meaning replacing the people which are holding the raid from progression.)

    P.S. grats on your new phatz bud.
    Posted 12-23-2007 at 06:41 AM by Fame Fame is offline
  2. Old Comment
    Quote:
    One final note, thanks E X A L T E D, I know at least one of you will be reading this.
    >_>

    I usually don't care for raid stacking. I'll try to avoid it if I can. But sometimes you just have to pull that card, and it makes things a lot easier. Last week we had a 3 healer / 7 clothy group that did the first 5 bosses pretty comfortably. No dice on Zul'Jin though. The next day 4 healers, 3 clothys made it a nice easy kill. (and a nice new chest for me!)
    Posted 12-25-2007 at 12:33 PM by Kavtor Kavtor is offline
  3. Old Comment
    veneretio's Avatar
    Ya I noticed you got that Chestpiece Kav. Very nice! (still think Season 3 PvP is greater though :P)

    And you are so right Fame it's just such a pain in a casual guild to have to take the time to explain why it's good to do.
    Posted 12-27-2007 at 12:36 PM by veneretio veneretio is online now
  4. Old Comment
    Grats on your first Zul'jin down (even though you were the 10th wheel, lol). Phat lewts are always fun, too. I haven't seen the inside of ZA since the PTR (where I promptly stomped, ground-in, and incinerated quickly by bear-riding trolls).

    Once my guild gets off their collective asses and get Kara on farm, I hope to be working my knuckles off for what you scrub'd up to on your first lucky run. Kudos!
    Posted 01-04-2008 at 11:34 AM by Radhja Radhja is offline
  5. Old Comment
    Ven wasn't a spare part at all. Worked as hard tanking trash and off tanking bosses as anyone in the run, and MT'd Zul'jin. He earned his toys. He's certainly among the best tanks I've had a chance to work with. Even if he is a dirty orc.
    Posted 01-04-2008 at 03:10 PM by Kavtor Kavtor is offline
  6. Old Comment
    [QUOTE](If there ever was a reason to stack health... being an idoit is up there with a huge benefit to gross amounts of hp)[/QUOTE]

    SO TRUE.
    Posted 01-10-2008 at 01:52 PM by Joanadark Joanadark is offline
 

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