I hope that there isn't Immortal again
Posted 03-18-2009 at 09:15 AM by veneretio
...and it's not because I think it's unrealistic. I think it's a fantastic achievement and frankly, it deserves to be in the Ulduar equivalent of Heroic: Glory of the Raider.
That being said, I really hope it's not. I never really knew where as a casual guild that does a lot of raiding that we drew the line. Then we went after Immortal and I saw us cross that line.
The spirit of the achievement just does not align with the spirit of our casual atmosphere. I expect maximum effort from all of my raiders when we're playing, but in the pursuit of Immortal... I see the casual atmosphere disintegrating.
There is no other achievement that immediately will cause the raid to:
1) Blame the tanks for stray adds,
2) Blame the healers for lack of heals,
3) Blame the lone dpser for dieing.
It creates an atmosphere of tension. An atmosphere of ultimate accountability. It forces everyone to really focus for an entire raid. It forces everyone to be terrified of being the one that dies. It forces everyone to simply not enjoy the game.
The achievement is the pinnacle of hardcore in my opinion. It is truly an achievement. What we'd expect achievements to really be... something bloody hard. Something you'd like to say you Achieved.
And, that's great. I love this achievement for what it is, but I'll never have my raid go for it. Sure, some days I'll be envious of not having done this true test of perfection and in another time, in another guild... I know I would have accomplished this.
But...
Not in my guild. We're casual and now I can tell you why.
That being said, I really hope it's not. I never really knew where as a casual guild that does a lot of raiding that we drew the line. Then we went after Immortal and I saw us cross that line.
The spirit of the achievement just does not align with the spirit of our casual atmosphere. I expect maximum effort from all of my raiders when we're playing, but in the pursuit of Immortal... I see the casual atmosphere disintegrating.
There is no other achievement that immediately will cause the raid to:
1) Blame the tanks for stray adds,
2) Blame the healers for lack of heals,
3) Blame the lone dpser for dieing.
It creates an atmosphere of tension. An atmosphere of ultimate accountability. It forces everyone to really focus for an entire raid. It forces everyone to be terrified of being the one that dies. It forces everyone to simply not enjoy the game.
The achievement is the pinnacle of hardcore in my opinion. It is truly an achievement. What we'd expect achievements to really be... something bloody hard. Something you'd like to say you Achieved.
And, that's great. I love this achievement for what it is, but I'll never have my raid go for it. Sure, some days I'll be envious of not having done this true test of perfection and in another time, in another guild... I know I would have accomplished this.
But...
Not in my guild. We're casual and now I can tell you why.
Total Comments 17
Comments
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I see that point, and I don't think that I will ever be in a position to achieve a title like that.
But the titles and such for things like that are what gives the elite hard core raiders something to go for and point to in order to separate themselves from the casual gamers. It is due to the vast majority of people Blizz is trying to keep interested (the casuals) that many of the raids and such are easy in comparison to some of the previous end content. I think this is a great idea, and for that reason alone I wouldn't mind seeing a comparable title/achievement.
Let those who are uber dedicated to raids and such get those titles and loot which simply cannot be attained unless at that high level. It might entice casual gamers to hunker down and perfect their game for a while.Posted 03-18-2009 at 09:44 AM by Kilrum 
- I agree completely. It ruins the fun of a casual guild. If I wanted to be completely serious, on top of my game, for every pull of a raid, I would join a hardcore progression guild. Chances are if you're in a casual raiding guild, you don't play 100% serious for the entire raid.
Posted 03-18-2009 at 09:58 AM by AxLxExX - It's fairly stressful. Not to mention, since some weeks (when I'm not around) we seem not to take it seriously, and keep seeming to have some player who's never made a mistake before make one mistake per run, we've spend a while being pretty exclusive in our raid make up, which is tough for trying to get all of the guild involved in content.
The easy solution is to suck less. But we'll still need to do it a few times to get everyone their mount, and time's a ticking.Posted 03-18-2009 at 10:38 AM by Kavtor - I guess it doesn't make sense for Blizzard to take out the achievement just for casual guilds. The point of these achievements (other than because WAR has them) is to give the hardcore raiders something to shoot for. If you're in a casual guild and want it to remain casual then just don't go for those types of achievements.
Posted 03-18-2009 at 10:43 AM by skypilot870 -
Equally infurating, in the "pissing on a high voltage rail" vein of thought, is "the dedicated few".
It's a cute achievement. but if they put it in glory of the raider that probably will mark the end of my guild going for achievements.
Edit: how to put it for better clarity... How the hell can you do a 20 man run, when you have 30 some odd people in your raid who want to go and get gear, and be fair to your substitute raiders and part of your main raiders?Posted 03-18-2009 at 11:24 AM by Alent -
The 20 man for a lot of guilds actually isn't nearly as bad because it's solved by running two 20 mans simultaneously. It requires a decent amount of planning ahead of time and possibly a little pugging, but it's not like we haven't organized 40 people to raid in the past before
Posted 03-18-2009 at 11:54 AM by veneretio - Yeah, but I don't have the healers to do two 20 mans at once... And i'm sure most guilds are in the same boat.
Posted 03-18-2009 at 01:33 PM by Alent - I agree with you whole heartedly and I also agree with Alent. I'm too afraid to organize two separate 20 mans because of the "A team" and "B team" mentality.
That being said, I believe I saw that there is a new immortal/undying set of achievements (undying part 2 I think it's called), but they are not included in the glory of the raider achievement for the mount.Posted 03-18-2009 at 01:36 PM by Paramount -
Posted 03-18-2009 at 01:43 PM by Paramount - Alent, I'm sure you've got an abundance of ranged dpsers with adequate gear that can respec for a night or two.
Interesting that they decided to not link it to the meta. Definitely a welcomed approach in my opinion. The best of both worlds really. Hardcore guilds get their achievement and Casual guilds still have an outside shot at the mountPosted 03-18-2009 at 02:17 PM by veneretio - I don't see that ending well, Vene. Our DPS play DPS for a reason, and it's not just "they enjoy it".
Posted 03-18-2009 at 03:15 PM by Alent - Yea vene they mentioned this last week that it would not be part of the meta
my problem with an immortal ulduar is that in order to get it you would probably not do hard modes, and then when you lose it on random cause of death #153673 on boss 10 you just missed 6 bosses worth of hard mode loot
which is also the reason i think blizzard decided to keep it out of the metaPosted 03-18-2009 at 03:16 PM by Darksend 
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Posted 03-18-2009 at 03:19 PM by Arideni - Or, they could have just made the achievement based on completing the hard modes without dieing
Posted 03-18-2009 at 03:45 PM by veneretio - they very well could have, if the achievement includes algonon
Posted 03-18-2009 at 03:55 PM by Darksend - Allready noticed the shift in mentality when the first person died, the very first time we tried "Undying". Sadly it was one of the likely suspects, to boot. And it were the likely suspects to mouth out about it. You could feel the atmosphere desintegrate...
Oddly enough going for the 10 man achievements has been the most fun I've had raiding in a long time. I'll still go for undying with me merry band though. But hey, I'll have to see if I can get the most relaxed people in there...Posted 03-19-2009 at 12:51 AM by Aethelas - I agree it's an awful achievement for the reasons you say, and also because it highlights failure and ignores greatness. You could probably organize an undying/immortal, but you would have to play in such a cautious manner it would not be enjoyable.
Posted 03-19-2009 at 10:25 PM by Machus
