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Never Kick someone from the Raid at the start

Posted 09-26-2008 at 10:19 AM by veneretio

I'm not talking about the person who has it coming. I'm not talking about Disrespectful Dan or Rude Regan or even Loopy Lore. I'm talking about that guy or gal you accidently clicked invite on. Joe or Jill that found there way into the raid when you forgot about Captain America or Batman because you thought they were already in the raid, but they actually weren't.

Leave Joe and Jill alone.

Don't you dare kick that accidental invite. Your raid members show up time and time again and that accidental invite is often that person that doesn't get to play as much. They're the one that's not expecting the invite, but is desparately hoping for it. So when you hook them up with that invite... please, please, please don't take it away.

1 person does NOT make a raid.

This last while with the beta we've all had that experience with our favourite class/spec of having the carrot dangled infront of our face only to see that amazing buff taken away or retuned. That's what you're doing to that Raid Member that you invite then kick once you realize that it was a mistake. I don't think you can possibly comprehend the feeling of inadequacy that causes for a person. You've broken their trust.

Trust means more than having 1 more Regular in the raid. Trust is better than the best laid plans. Trust is what makes you a leader.

And if you don't believe that, there's a much older quote than all of this babbling that as cornie as it sounds, is relevant and truthful as always.

2 Wrongs don't make a Right.

Posted in Raid Leading

Comments 10

Total Comments 10

Comments

"They're the one that's not expecting the invite, but is desparately hoping for it."

I know that would be me.

Just finally got aruond to have enough to start Kara, and I ahve at least 15 friends in3 different raiding guilds that "said they will look me up" when it comes to run Kara for a MT position.

I want that accidental invite soooooooo bad

I also want someone to tell me I can't do it but yet give me the opportunity to prove him wrong. Heck I might even pay for that opportunity!

I am not wrong or right, but I am the best damn thing that will ever happen to an accidental invite

Posted 09-26-2008 at 10:25 AM by Dunkealme Dunkealme is offline

Thanks! Great post and I agree completely. Been there...done that...on both sides. I have been in a regular raid group where, through some miscommunication or inattention, an invite was given that was not really intended. To our leader's credit...we kept them in. It was good for the individual and, in the end, I think it was good for the raid group. We did just fine...the regular that did not get in was understanding (and supportive) and we were able to give that new member a shot at a few pieces of gear and help them along. Great side effect - we also felt good about it.

Thanks for the post...good one.

Posted 09-26-2008 at 10:26 AM by csmgt csmgt is offline

One fortunate side product of the reduction in raid size is the lessening of the need for auto-invite mods to handle it all.

I was just now looking through my old scrrenshots, seas and oceans of pink text....

Our raid team was called 'surge' and soooo many times, I'd have people send me an idiot /tell "I just hit 60 last night, can I come to surge?" bam, auto invite. And worse.

But I agree for the most part. If you ask someone who isn't expecting it and scrambling madly to get thier consumables and haul ass to the raid zone and then uber raidah logs in 2 min before first pull and says "lol, I fell asleep. Invite me now" yeah....you keep the other person 9 times out of 10.

Posted 09-26-2008 at 10:42 AM by Horacio Horacio is online now

	Ya, I'm not a fan of auto-invite mods that's for certain.
	Posted 09-26-2008 at 11:08 AM by veneretio

I'm going to somewhat disagree and say that it depends largely on how hard you are trying to push progression.

If Joe or Jill doesn't get many raid invites because they happen to be one of your worst players while Captain America is one of your very best, then one person absolutely will make (or break) your raid if you'll be working on challenging new content. Stacking the odds in your favor and getting a new kill sooner (or at all) will do much more to overall troop moral than to play Mr. nice guy with raid invites.

Farm content is of course a different story.

Posted 09-26-2008 at 03:41 PM by Armstrong Armstrong is online now

	My guild usually goes "oh, crap, we forgot to invite (name)" and says "Does anyone want to step for him?" Which doesn't really have any negative effect.
	Posted 09-26-2008 at 03:49 PM by Alent

I start with raid spots then invite to the spot, rather than the person. For instance, say Kara:

1: MT
2: OT
3: MH
4: OH
5: (TH or dps if the other healers feel then can 2 heal it)
6: DPS
7: DPS
8: DPS
9: (specific type of) DPS
10: (specific type of) DPS

The advantage to this is you don't get stuck dropping a healer or tank, as those spots go first and it works as a on-time check too. If you're not on time, youre spot is gone. Not that it hasn't made people cry and whine but oh well.

Specific dps would be AoE'ers if I didn't have any, or melee dps if I had all ranged, etc. Its the fill_in_the_blank spot.

Posted 09-26-2008 at 05:30 PM by Smaken Smaken is offline

That is extremely true on a social/human basis and that is reason alone. You could also say practically that once you invited the player you have a choice:

Kick them to turn a 4% slice of the raid's performance from an unknown 0%-4% to something like a trusted 3%, at the start rather than waiting to measure it.
Keep them until you measure where they stand on their 0%-4% potential. You can then kick them if they are say below 2%, or invite them to the guild if you see a 4%.

I'd take the chance to miss 1%-2% of my raid's performance for the night, for a small chance to add an extra 1% to my raids in the long run.

Posted 09-27-2008 at 06:01 AM by Machus Machus is offline

	If you prick us, do we not bleed?
	Posted 09-28-2008 at 01:58 PM by Arideni

Good post. I have seen some good players develop from just this situation. Maybe their dps wasn't that good, but they were nice to play with and trapped when asked to, or sheeped and resheeped, etc. Usually this type of player wants and is will to learn to up their output, sometimes with something as simple as......Hey Joe, take a look at this website, I think it will help ya.

Give people a chance, it's rewarding

Posted 10-21-2008 at 11:00 PM by ndb1983 ndb1983 is offline

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