Where are my healz?

I guess you could put Battlemaster on your weapons... :P

:P you have 2 dps trees and 1 tanking tree.

Warlocks have 3 dps trees
Mages have 3 dps trees
Hunters have 3 dps trees
Rogues have 3 dps trees
Druids have 2 DPS trees, 1 tanking tree and 1 healing tree
Priests have 1.5 healing trees, 1 pvp tree, 1 dps tree
Paladins have 1 dps tree, 1 healing and 1 tanking

Warriors are a DPS / Tank hybrid, so have 2/4 possible trees, and only a few have 3 or 4 trees. Simple fact is Warrior tanking is OP at the moment because it has all the gimmicks in it, and there are gimmick fights. Get rid of the Gimmicks and the land becomes more fair.

I have always thought I should get something special for having first aid capped at every single point in the game. Perhaps an out-of combat, 10-minute CD "Trauma Surgeon" resurrection. I've always found "bandage-spec" to be one of my favorite warrior jokes.

Regardless of having two dps trees or the gimmicks, raiding since TBC has become more role centric rather than class centric. The Dev's set out to make it that way by introducing raid gear for off specs and reworking the talent trees in an effort to make them more viable for raiding in non-traditional roles. If you look at the tier'd gear sets this is obvious. Rather than have a set of gear for each tree they have one for each role that the class can fulfill.

Warrior tanking isn't OP for the simple fact that Warriors have two roles they can fulfill vs the three the other two current tanking classes can. That is balanced by giving Warriors the gimmicks.

With the projected smoothing of the out of the differences between the tanking classes, in effect giving the gimmicks to everyone, why don't warriors get that extra role to fulfill that all the other hybrids do?

When I hit bloodthirst I get back 150 hp over the course of 5 hits, does that count?

In my raid group, we usually have sufficient healing for trash and bosses (6-7 healers on average) and the ability of a prot warrior to strap on dps gear and churn out another 800 dps (I <3 these guy :3) is much better than a paladin strapping on some mediocre healing gear with crap regen and spot overhealing at best.

No, it is OP, and if you don't see that then you are wearing blinders.

Does a Druid or Paladin go respec to DPS or Healer for a boss fight? In general No (and at least for paladins its two completely separate gear paths).

What we have is a Tank tree thats missing every single gimmick atm compared to Warriors, while we can MT many bosses fine there are some that we will rarely get to see or get invited to simple because of the lack of those gimmicks, that is the OP part. You have a PvE dps tree and a PvP/PvE dps tree as well as the generic + gimmick tanking tree. Without a respec / full gear change a paladin isn't a healer, nor is a Druid, in fact you are better off than 4 other classes for trees, and worse than 4 in terms of the availability.

I didn't go tank to sit at the side and heal, I went tank to tank, most tanks did. When there is an obvious imbalance without a gimmick to make up for it (eg: shadow priests mana battery / health battery as part of the reason their dps is low) then there is less reason to take a member of the other class. The so called Hybrid classes shouldn't suffer for it because of it if they are pure when talented (Prot paladins lol heal at best without a gear + talent change, a shadow priest can heal a heroic in their dps gear, and yes I have tried :P).

My argument has nothing to do with the need or lack of need to respec to fulfill a different role or having to change gear to do so. If you have a prot warrior expected to do dps in a raid and he/she dosen't change out of their tanking gear then you need to find another warrior. My point is that the way it currently stands the individuality that sets the tanking classes apart (all those things you say makes warriors op) are being taken away.

The tanking classes are getting leveled in the expansion. Gear is becoming simplified with adjustments being made to the way the classes interact with the gear rather than the gear itself differentiating between them.

Once again, it isn't about the different tree's or the way you do your dps/healing/tanking so much as it is about the ability to fulfill those roles in a raid.

Currently and in the past Warriors have been better equipped to MT whatever came along. Perhaps not the best, but always able. And because they are better suited to do so dosen't equate to being overpowered. Properly specced and geared paladins can spam cast heals for what feels like forever vs a Priest that has powerful group heals and a hot, but can't spam their biggest heals without running oom in quick order. Is one overpowered over the other? Not really, they just do it differently.

With tanking in the beta, from what I have read here and on the forums, those differences are largely being removed. At the same time that the other classes are receiving new abilities that allow them to debuff the mobs and be more proactive on their threat in a manner similiar to what warriors can do now, I don't really see anything coming that equates to the same thing for warriors. What I've seen added looks more like gimmicks than what is there now.

I'm sorry if it this comes across as saying it's not "fair" for the field to get leveled, but is it "fair" to increase the viability even more for every other tanking class on top of the roles they can already fulfill while warriors get the proverbial stick upside the head?

At this point, I don't see a reason to level my warrior which has been my main since I started playing seriously over my paladin alt I rolled after tbc so I could get a feel for how tanking as one worked. That makes me sad, but if there is no functional difference then I might as well go for the one that allows me the best opportunity to contribute to a raid. After all, it's just one more gear set to farm so I have a healing set in addition to a threat/survival/dps/multiple resist sets. Honestly, with the changes it looks like paladin tanking will work more like traditional warrior tanking than warrior tanking will.

4 Classes can heal, each in their own way. It's been like this for some time, and that's cool.

9, soon 10, classes can fulfill a DPS role, each in its own way, it's been like this for sometime, and that's cool.

Now 3, soon 4 classes can fulfill the tank, even the Main Tank role, and that's cool.

I think, too, that the decision to design Wrath of the Lich King 10 man Raids around 1 tank and 2 healers makes it nessesary to level the tanks. The Devs can't know which one of the 4 tanking classes you will bring to your 10 man.

The blog was tongue in cheek, warriors don't want a heal button.. we are tank or dps; that's how the class works. What is distressing is pretty much making hybrid specs = to pure specs.

The original idea behind hybrids was jack of everything, master of nothing. A noble idea, but in implementation a failure due to the way raids/pvp (classes balances) required min/maxing. Why shouldn't a holy paladin specced to heal be good at it? why shouldn't a druid specced to tank be good at it?

So they changed it and now instead of classes we have roles, with a few unique/distinctions thrown in.

So Treenaa your suggestion is Warriors shouldn't be good tanks because they have a viable DPS spec? Or does it only apply to other classes? Paladin's main spec could be Tank, and our Healer / DPS get nerfed, instead Blizzard took the sensible route and want to make all specs for all classes viable. That is 4/4 tanks viable for tanking, 9/9 for dps and 4/4 for healing. Fair and level is the best, if that means you lose your advantages to level it then thats fair, we all tank with slight differences.

WTB Trauma Surgeon out of combat rez for max first aid, paying $15 a month, pst

I hear you. Go ahead and make more viable tanks but please give warriors a slight edge to make up for other things we lack. Hybrids knew what they were getting into when they rolled one.

Warriors can have an off-role (dps) but druids and paladins have 2 (dps & healing) - won't be as good if specced protection but better than nothing. They also have 30 minute group buffs, a res (pallies and soon druids), decursing / cleansing. Warriors can debuff a target and give a 2 minute shout buff to their group + a few unique abilities that give us the edge in tanking right now.

Sure, paladins and druids that have decided to tank don't want to heal, but in situations where there are too many tanks but low healing / cleansing they can help out (as well as do the things mentioned above OR just go dps like warriors can) I think that's why warriors might feel a bit ripped off in future - hybrids can do everything we can and then some if they really level the playing field when it comes to tanking.

I guess deathknights are in the same boat? 2 roles only so they should be on par with prot warriors...

Warriors were the best tanks in TBC by virtue of having several abilities that gave us the best mitigation. The key being we had to USE those abilities or we were worse than any of the tanking options. Warrior tanking was skilled based. The warrior claim to tanking wasn't one of mechanics for a boss as much as a visceral feeling of "Blizzard made my job the hardest, therefore I should be the best if I do my job well." A good warrior was better than a good druid, because no matter how freaking awesome a druid was, all they really did was generate threat. Blizzard has the mechanics of the class do all the mitigation for them. Edit: That statement doesn't reflect fact as much as the perception warriors operated under in TBC.

Wrath has changed this though. Warriors don't need to keep shield block up. The other classes all have speed debuffs that last longer and are easier to apply than TC. The fact is that warrior tanking in wrath will be as easy or almost as easy as any other class for the most part. We're still more complicated, even just threat generation wise, but nothing like it is now. In that sense, my feeling of why would a warrior be the MT or best tank all around is pretty much depleted. If my job isn't harder, the theoretical reward of what bosses I'm best at would have to be less.

Personally I think all warriors should roll Death Knights. I'd rather be a rarely used tank due to relying on a boss damage mechanics, instead of a rarely used tank for a boss with a "gimmick." Besides then all our seething hatred for the other classes will atleast be in character.

Actually, paladins can't spam their biggest heals for forever (or even long periods of time for that matter). They can spam their smaller one, but even well geared/spec'd, spamming Holy Light will make you go oom really fast. If you want to do Holy Light spam, then you have to start chain chugging mana pots and cross your fingers for well timed crits.

We have fallen quite a ways back behind the rest of the healers, especially after the spirit/int regen mechanics changed that happened this year. Holy paladins still do decent enough, but our healing has fallen behind quite a bit.

EDIT: I will say, out of all of the tanking classes currently, warriors do have the best DPS when spec'd to DPS. This may not be enough to stifle the feeling, but it is at least a start.