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Elemental damage
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Elemental damage

Posted 05-10-2008 at 10:52 AM by Timetheos
Updated 05-10-2008 at 11:18 AM by Timetheos (Adjusting categories)
I don't know why, but elemental damage is something I find immensely interesting. I find myself often championing a non-generalized approach to things. It's an open mind that allows one to see the true value in things, and the possibilities of seldom-explored dimensions of existing knowledge. And that's the most pretentious sentence, I suspect, that I've ever written. However, it's true. I quietly cheer to myself whenever I inspect a hunter to find leather gear which exceeds any mail he's come across. Or anyone wearing a non-epic when they would clearly have a purple alternative, or even a level 60 piece like the Scarab.

The vast majority of tanks I've come across are, well, quite stupid. They usually have a single 'tanking' set, all epic and plate and dripping with stamina. As early as Karazhan, I noticed that I was the only tank who wore resistance gear for anything. However, it was on my guild's first attempt at Hydross that I realized that there was a serious problem: the frost tank, while wearing the three smithed epics donated by the guild, also sported [item]Figurine of the Colossus[/item]. (I was the nature tank at this point.) Probably the most painful thing about the situation was how delicately I had to approach it; I have an unfortunate amount of experience in trying to help people who don't think they need it.

Anyway, back on subject: what's wrong with this trinket? Isn't blocking good? Isn't healing good? Well, as much as I love this trinket (which I really do - it snatches a close 3rd in block rating trinkets, and allows full heals in some situations), it's absolutely useless against Hydross. Why? Elemental damage cannot be blocked. Thus block rating is useless, as is the use effect. In fact, I'm happy to say that the only reason I actually use a shield against Hydross is the threat from Shield Slam. I almost wish threat wasn't so Slam-intensive, so I could whip off the shield in favor of a second weapon just to labor this point.

People don't seem to make the mistake of neglecting resistance gear in these fights. I guess this is because the magic school is explicitly displayed in the combat log, and/or because one instinctively sees an elemental and foresees magic damage.

What's so special about elemental damage, though? Everything I've said so far can be safely extended to casters, except that shields also sometimes allow a method of interrupting or reflecting magic attacks. Well, (and I really love this), elemental damage can be avoided. Dodged, parried or [non-existent verb indicating that it misses you. Suggestions anyone?].

Luckily for all the stupid tanks out there, they don't drop avoidance against magic attacks, so likely keep those stats stacked for elemental. Ironically it's probably those with a tiny bit of sense who confuse elemental with magic damage and, in their knowledge that magic damage can't be avoided, gear suboptimally.

A while ago I started scribbling a diagram of the four different magic types, and the means of protecting oneself against them. Here it is:


It'd be nice if there was something linking the two ranged damage types, but what can you do? Stamina is applicable to all four types of damage. By the way, I took liberties in naming everything there. Don't take the labels as canon, but please walk away with some insight into the finer details of tanking stats

I guess it's the way elemental damage combines magic (such that it needs to be resisted) and a very physical property (avoidance), which makes it a very appealing subject for my perusal.

I found a nice screenshot illustrating it, here. The block chance listed in the Tankpoints addon (in red) actually turns out to be my chance to be hit, since elemental damage can't be blocked.

Edit: please don't judge me for being so rude to the guy in chat; he's my twin brother. So it's allowed.

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Old
Timetheos's Avatar
Can anyone verify where on that diagram crit avoidance would go? I'm not 100% sure of what can crit.
Posted 05-10-2008 at 11:17 AM by Timetheos Timetheos is offline
Old
Ciderhelm's Avatar
What do you mean by Crit avoidance? Resilience/Defense or where actual melee crits would be placed?

For PVE content, Resil/Defense Crit Reduction would certainly fall under Avoidance on Hand to Hand, but the followup question is whether it would also affect ranged physical attacks. I assume so, but that's something that would have to be tested and verified since there's been no real purpose or need for the information yet. If so, it wouldn't fit into just one spot on the above.
Posted 05-10-2008 at 01:20 PM by Ciderhelm Ciderhelm is online now
Old
Alent's Avatar
Elemental damage is special. that's why I have a 272 AR set for some spots in kara and heroic terrace's second boss.

To the best of my knowledge only "white damage" can crit, so if it says "Boss' (ability) hits you for..." instead of "boss hits you for", does that not mean that attack cannot crit?
Posted 05-10-2008 at 02:40 PM by Alent Alent is offline
Old
Timetheos's Avatar
What do you mean by Crit avoidance? Resilience/Defense or where actual melee crits would be placed?
I'm not sure that I understand the question. I mean: which kinds of damage can crit, the chance of which can be reduced by increasing defense/resilience?

You're right about ranged physical attacks (which need a better name than 'shot' lol): it very rarely comes up.

I'm sure I'll be able to find situations where I can safely test all four.
Posted 05-10-2008 at 03:48 PM by Timetheos Timetheos is offline
Old
Ciderhelm's Avatar
Another way of wording it:

All damage can Crit. Boss special abilities cannot Crit. Boss normal attacks can Crit, and normal attacks can be either physical or elemental. Crit Reduction works on both of these.

As far as I know -- again, something I've never had the need to test since it does not occur in PVE tanking -- Defense does not reduce Spell Crit.

Ranged is still the hangup on this. I can't think of physical ranged attacks that aren't special abilities in PVE, so I really have no idea where you'd even test it other than against another player in a duel.
Posted 05-10-2008 at 04:09 PM by Ciderhelm Ciderhelm is online now
Old
Timetheos's Avatar
I suppose if it's recorded as a mob's "Shoot" hitting you, it is a special ability. If that is the case, then I'm not familiar with any non-special ranged physical attack, and will thus conclude that, while being unique in that it can be blocked but not avoided, it can't crit, as it is technically a kind of special ability.

I generally find that it's best to avoid other people when trying to test tanking phenomena, since the mechanics tend to vary. Regarding spell crits: The diagram above is not a definitive "WoW vs. you" breakdown of damage types. I'm only interested in PvE tanking. However, I will try to find out how PvE spells/ranged are affected by crit avoidance. Luckily, my brother also has a hunter alt.

I guess the place of crit avoidance is next to avoidance, under the hand-to-hand banner.
Posted 05-10-2008 at 04:58 PM by Timetheos Timetheos is offline
Old
Ciderhelm's Avatar
I've yet to see evidence that PVE and PVP mechanics operate any differently except on tiny things like weapon skill. The most common example people use is that you can Shield Block a Crit in PVP but not PVE; however, you can only Shield Block a Crit from a special ability, which bosses never do anyway.
Posted 05-10-2008 at 05:24 PM by Ciderhelm Ciderhelm is online now
Old
Timetheos's Avatar
In the context of this discussion, that very fact (bosses' specials don't crit) is the kind of difference I was referring to.

I like this; I'm learning
Posted 05-10-2008 at 06:59 PM by Timetheos Timetheos is offline
 
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