This Week's ZA Post-Mortem
This week was a ZA week for my guild. We usually raid once or twice a week, either Kara or ZA. Since I don't really have much I need from Kara - save for the ever-present badges - I was really excited. I logged on, I bought myself some more healing pots and flew on up to Ghostlands. On the flight, we were determining who would have to roll for spots, and who wouldn't. Oddly, we had exactly the right amount of DPS classes, too many tanks, and too many healers. Being a casual guild, we usually have people that opt out, and this week was no exception. One of our healers said he'd step down, and then one of our tanks said he'd step down. That tank happened to have been our most experienced player, as well as raid leader.
So, for the first time in ZA, and only the second time ever, I'm leading the raid. Note that this was only my third time in ZA. How'd it go, you ask? Well, let's just say that I picked the title of this post very carefully.
Now, we were missing several of our A-listers. Four of the people in the raid had not done ZA before. So, it was a learning experience. Unfortunately, some people didn't see it that way. Here's how it went down:
We buff up and start the instance, heading toward Eagle first. Our prot pally (new to ZA) is leading the way, and I'm on rear-guard duty. The first time through, he's taunting too many mobs off of me, and dies when the healers can't keep up. Oh well. It happens. I inform him as such, and we try again. We get through the gauntlet pretty well this time, and our ever-picky feral druid compliments the newbies on getting through it so well. Which is an accomplishment, I'd say.
Then we wipe twice on the actual boss. Each time, we got him down to the area of about 20%, and a good portion of the group died to the storm. One of the more experienced members of the group was calling out when to collapse in, and go back out, which was really helpful. Props to Aliera.
After the second wipe, the gauntlet had respawned, and we decided to try Bear instead. But then we wiped when we were taken by surprise by the first two mobs in the trash. Somebody, maybe me, got a little too close. This was apparently the last straw for the aforementioned feral druid, who said "I'm out" and left without another word. Lellik, one of our experienced priests, also said "I'm out" and left (though less silently than Kamei, the druid).
Somebody suggested getting a couple more guildies and doing Kara instead. I got the feeling that some people were not up for that, so I left it to a vote. Turns out there were 4 people who didn't want to continue, so I called it for lack of people. A certain mage whispered me complaining about how it sucks that ZA fell apart, because he doesn't get much time, and had an argument with a teacher just to get to the raid. I apologized as best I could, and explained that things just don't work sometimes. It's unfortunate, but true.
I guess I can't shake the feeling that I failed in some way. But I'm not sure I did. I mean, I probably could have led the group better, but I don't think I did terribly. Perhaps I'll ask some of the experienced guildies who were there. Anyway, the moral. There's gotta be a moral, right? I guess it's less of a moral and more of a "things I learned":
So, for the first time in ZA, and only the second time ever, I'm leading the raid. Note that this was only my third time in ZA. How'd it go, you ask? Well, let's just say that I picked the title of this post very carefully.
Now, we were missing several of our A-listers. Four of the people in the raid had not done ZA before. So, it was a learning experience. Unfortunately, some people didn't see it that way. Here's how it went down:
We buff up and start the instance, heading toward Eagle first. Our prot pally (new to ZA) is leading the way, and I'm on rear-guard duty. The first time through, he's taunting too many mobs off of me, and dies when the healers can't keep up. Oh well. It happens. I inform him as such, and we try again. We get through the gauntlet pretty well this time, and our ever-picky feral druid compliments the newbies on getting through it so well. Which is an accomplishment, I'd say.
Then we wipe twice on the actual boss. Each time, we got him down to the area of about 20%, and a good portion of the group died to the storm. One of the more experienced members of the group was calling out when to collapse in, and go back out, which was really helpful. Props to Aliera.
After the second wipe, the gauntlet had respawned, and we decided to try Bear instead. But then we wiped when we were taken by surprise by the first two mobs in the trash. Somebody, maybe me, got a little too close. This was apparently the last straw for the aforementioned feral druid, who said "I'm out" and left without another word. Lellik, one of our experienced priests, also said "I'm out" and left (though less silently than Kamei, the druid).
Somebody suggested getting a couple more guildies and doing Kara instead. I got the feeling that some people were not up for that, so I left it to a vote. Turns out there were 4 people who didn't want to continue, so I called it for lack of people. A certain mage whispered me complaining about how it sucks that ZA fell apart, because he doesn't get much time, and had an argument with a teacher just to get to the raid. I apologized as best I could, and explained that things just don't work sometimes. It's unfortunate, but true.
I guess I can't shake the feeling that I failed in some way. But I'm not sure I did. I mean, I probably could have led the group better, but I don't think I did terribly. Perhaps I'll ask some of the experienced guildies who were there. Anyway, the moral. There's gotta be a moral, right? I guess it's less of a moral and more of a "things I learned":
- Raid leaders have far more to pay attention to than I realized. I should have been calling out the storms, I should have been paying attention to where the other members of the raid were, etc.
- ZA really is a gear test. I felt like the heals were good, the tanking was good, but the DPS was a little slow, at least compared to nights where we've progressed.
Total Comments 12
Comments
| | Ya win some, ya lose some, ya wipe some. |
Posted 06-27-2008 at 12:35 AM by Zigystardust |
| | Bailing on raids is absolutely positively unacceptable. The guild master needs to talk to those two people about that. "I'm out" is /gkickable in my book. That said, did your raid have a scheduled end time? If it was open ended I can understand it a little more. Did they offer a "I'm sorry guys but if we wipe again on trash I'm going to have to vote that we suspend tonight's raid." Did the people that have never been before watch/read up on the bosses? You touched on tanking, heals, and DPS. But there's part of a group that you didn't mention and that's chemistry. Taking out regulars and throwing in people that don't run with you as much, even in identical specs and gear, will throw things out of whack a bit. |
Posted 06-27-2008 at 07:16 AM by Leytur |
| | The thing about our guild is that we're primarily a social group. Bailing on raids is acceptable, if only because some people get frustrated by multiple wipes, and we'd rather they continued to enjoy the game than force them to make progress in raiding. We don't have a scheduled end time. We raid at most twice a week (though we may have weekend raids sometimes... we have a Gruul's attempt scheduled in July). At least some of the new people read up on bosses, I know that for a fact. Even if they didn't, there was an explanation of Eagle before we started. It shouldn't have been a problem. But it was, and I think that was because of the chemistry of the group. When we have our regulars, we can take down Lynx without too much trouble, and while that's partially a gear issue, it's also that they've been raiding together much much longer than the newer 70's in the guild. |
Posted 06-27-2008 at 07:45 AM by Thireas |
| | I don't care how casual it is. Bailing on a raid shows absolutely no respect for the other 9 people in the raid. I think that's very lame. |
Posted 06-27-2008 at 07:57 AM by Leytur |
| | I'm not trying to play devil's advocate, but... respect is a two way street. Should people know the fights? - Yep Should people expect someone to hold their hand on the Eagle Storms? No, we all can hear sounds. Should you always stay behind the tank/RL - Yep Should you tuff it out and suck it (to the leavers) - Yep It's too much work to try to micromanage a raid, you can do it in 10 mans, but in 25 mans, there are too many people and it'll drive you into a wall. People do need to have their own initiative and thought processes in this game as well :P |
Posted 06-27-2008 at 08:19 AM by Muggs |
| | Bailing on the raid is an insult. It has nothing to do with being hardcore, it has to do with respect and the lack there of. Also, there's a trick to eagle gauntlet with a pally tank as long as he's got the gear to survive it: Pick wind walker, kill wind walker... don't kill the other guardian. Move up and kill the next wind walker. Repeat until you're staring at the Tempest, Kill all of the rear adds, let the rear add tank pull the tempest. |
Posted 06-27-2008 at 09:52 AM by Alent |
| | Sometimes you just have a bad day. Like a 6-hour kara with people in tier5... ugh! Don't let it get to you - it happens. It does sound like you do need to be a bit more organized and assertive during raids though - don't keep asking people what they want or what to do - just keep things moving and be decisive, and this will give people more confidence in the raid and they will be less likely to bail. |
Posted 06-27-2008 at 10:29 AM by Thist |
| | Raid progress and come and go as you please sort of do not mix. Either people are willing to stick it out for whatever time is allotted and make a genuine effort at improving, or all you are doing is looking for a repair bill. Progress requires dedication, even if it is only 2 hours a week or whatever you decide on. How will anyone be willing to commit if it is always in the back of their head, "Great, if we wipe again these people are going to drop and their went all the gold I spent on consumables and whatnot." Everyone needs to be on the same page, or you might as well just pug a heroic. |
Posted 06-27-2008 at 12:42 PM by Tatt |
| | Being a casual guild is:
This does make raid progression a little slow, but it's okay. Really. If we raided more than twice a week, I have no doubt we'd have Zul'jin down by now. [Insert joke about Zul'jin - the realm - being down all the time]. But a large number of our members have families and jobs to worry about. Saying "I'm out" because the raid just isn't going well is perfectly valid in our definition of casual. |
Posted 06-27-2008 at 01:18 PM by Thireas |
| | Imo wiping because u dont know the instance isnt "Fun". The fun starts when u learn the instances, get throu the gauntlets without wiping on silly mistakes and kill the bosses. ZA is hard as hell for newcomers and dont leave much room for ppl who just wants too take one pack at a time like Karazhan. Also its a place where you have too balance the raid perfectly, with the right classes, who are using the proper raid specs. To get too the Eagle, Bear and Dragonhawk bosses you will have too take your raid through 3 different gauntlets which you MUST be prepared for. Lynx boss is a bit more forgiving (hits like a truck thou) but you will want too go for Eagle and Bear boss first too at least get the 2 chests. All I can say is Ive been where you are atm, not wanting too go back there since I felt like I failed in leading the group. Now I take 2 timed every week too help ppl in guild getting the bear mount. Love the instance! Having a solid group who knows how too work together is definetly the easiest way too progress from what Ive experienced. |
Posted 06-27-2008 at 03:54 PM by Seraphiel |
| | Not trying to argue with you Thireas, I jsut have this image of waiting all week for ZA (I do not play very often, like you said job and family) and getting ready, relentless assault flask, food, pots, stones, the works, waiting for summons, getting into the raid and suddenly "Oh well, since you guys are hitting a wall I'm done, cya on the flip side." And then waiting for a sub, then can't find a sub, then someone goes well I have this alt if you will switch to this and I can pull that and......omg I would break things. Each to his own I guess, and I am far from hardcore or progression motivated, but fun for me takes some cooperation. |
Posted 06-27-2008 at 04:54 PM by Tatt |
| | I don't feel like that was argumentative at all. I feel like it's exactly what a bunch of the raid was feeling. And it sucks. But those are some of the trials and tribulations of being a casual guild. We only have so many members, and not all of them raid, so it's hard to find a sub. |
Posted 06-27-2008 at 06:18 PM by Thireas |
Recent Blog Entries by Thireas
- On CSS Polymorphism (not about WoW at all) (11-07-2008)
- ZA Cleared! ... twice (10-31-2008)
- Grats to the Mageroyal Syndicate (10-24-2008)
- "Rotation" (10-19-2008)
- WoW and Boredom (09-29-2008)







