ZA Cleared! ... twice
Posted 10-31-2008 at 08:55 PM by Thireas
Updated 10-31-2008 at 09:01 PM by Thireas (Item links not working?)
Updated 10-31-2008 at 09:01 PM by Thireas (Item links not working?)
Last night, I was in on my first-ever ZA clear. It was fairly easy, and we got three out of four chests, even with two wipes on eagle. It was my first time seeing Zul'jin, and it was a little crazy, especially the Dragonhawk phase. I get the feeling our DPS decided to ignore the threat wipe on that last phase change, as big ZJ was kind of just rampaging all over the place. We still downed him in one shot (just like all the other bosses, save for Eagle). I wasn't really surprised at how easy the whole thing was at this point; I had heard all the rumors of it being like Kara these days.
I think I'm still getting used to tanking post-patch. I'm not sure how much I like it. I appreciate the lack of crushing blows, but I don't feel like I'm in control anymore. It feels more chaotic. More like what I'm doing doesn't matter. Interesting.
In terms of gear, there wasn't anything that dropped for me, but I ended up with a Mojo, so that was pretty cool.
So, '... twice'. Yes. I PuGged ZA tonight, with some people who seemed fairly overgeared. The main tank (a pally) whispered me and said he could basically solo tank the place.
And he did.
I felt completely useless for most of the instance. Of course, it didn't help that I was lagging throughout most of it. I was assigned to tank the troll form of Nalorakk, so I pulled, and immediately lost aggro. The pally tank taunted him, and I never got aggro again. He tanked throughout the whole thing. I'd taunt off of him at the transition, and he'd just taunt back. I fail. On Dragonhawk, I was assigned to the adds. I thought I did a decent job, but we wiped to the fire bombs. The second time through, I felt like I was losing aggro on the hawks too much, but I couldn't really tell for sure.
Overall, the pally tanked damn near everything. All the adds, all the trash. Everything. I mean, he was much better geared than me, but still. I would have liked to tank something. Although... I guess I blew my chance.
I get the feeling that the raid, and the other people in the raid thought I was a bad tank. And I know I'm not, but it still sucks. I mean, it's not like I have a reputation outside my guild (I used to, I think, but not so much anymore), but I don't want a bad rep with anybody.
In the end, I got Chestguard of the Warlord and a Void Crystal. Also, The Essence Focuser for my shaman once she hits 70.
So, I got some gear, and my ZA clear. But I feel like I don't know what I'm doing with tanking anymore, and I seem to have made a bad impression on some pretty well-geared people.
I'm not sure that's such a good trade.
I think I'm still getting used to tanking post-patch. I'm not sure how much I like it. I appreciate the lack of crushing blows, but I don't feel like I'm in control anymore. It feels more chaotic. More like what I'm doing doesn't matter. Interesting.
In terms of gear, there wasn't anything that dropped for me, but I ended up with a Mojo, so that was pretty cool.
So, '... twice'. Yes. I PuGged ZA tonight, with some people who seemed fairly overgeared. The main tank (a pally) whispered me and said he could basically solo tank the place.
And he did.
I felt completely useless for most of the instance. Of course, it didn't help that I was lagging throughout most of it. I was assigned to tank the troll form of Nalorakk, so I pulled, and immediately lost aggro. The pally tank taunted him, and I never got aggro again. He tanked throughout the whole thing. I'd taunt off of him at the transition, and he'd just taunt back. I fail. On Dragonhawk, I was assigned to the adds. I thought I did a decent job, but we wiped to the fire bombs. The second time through, I felt like I was losing aggro on the hawks too much, but I couldn't really tell for sure.
Overall, the pally tanked damn near everything. All the adds, all the trash. Everything. I mean, he was much better geared than me, but still. I would have liked to tank something. Although... I guess I blew my chance.
I get the feeling that the raid, and the other people in the raid thought I was a bad tank. And I know I'm not, but it still sucks. I mean, it's not like I have a reputation outside my guild (I used to, I think, but not so much anymore), but I don't want a bad rep with anybody.
In the end, I got Chestguard of the Warlord and a Void Crystal. Also, The Essence Focuser for my shaman once she hits 70.
So, I got some gear, and my ZA clear. But I feel like I don't know what I'm doing with tanking anymore, and I seem to have made a bad impression on some pretty well-geared people.
I'm not sure that's such a good trade.
Total Comments 10
Comments
 | First off all, alot of pallies get this 'high and mighty' thing, because that was how warriors were during preBC. And, if a pally can do it, kudos to him, let him do it, and just sit there and absorb the badges and the experience, and just try your hardest (although I know it's agrivating) to watch what he does, because one day you'll be able to solo ZA, and then when you bring your OT, remember how you felt, and let him tank things. As far as the paly taunting after you taunted, that was RUDE of him, and him just trying to show off, and build up his E-Peen. As far as the group, I guarantee you (although this might sound rougher then I intend it to be), the group probably didn't even notice. Most groups just notice live or die, and if they are dieing THEN they think "hows my tank doing, and hows my offtank doing", otherwise they just think "wewt ez run, lets dps more, i wanna pull agro!". Healers actually probably thought you were a BETTER tank then pally because they didn't have to heal you. I think your fine, and the biggest/best thing a tank can have is confidence. Not over confidence, like that pally had, but confidence in your ability to tank, and the ability to grow as a tank. |
Posted 10-31-2008 at 09:56 PM by Coro  |
| |  As a warrior tank I sorta want to drop the bomb on pallys but in truth, its a cross class thing, all tanks can be like that and run around knocking over furniture with thier epeen. When you're overgeared for content as a group, at least, it doesn't really effect the bottom line but in pressure situations, tanks have to work together and not get into a pissing contest. Yeah, I think its rude and it happens. Happened to me the other night trying to position a boss mob and build threat and it was a pally. I bore down, ripped the mob back and blew his doors off  That said, I've seen warrior tanks and druid tanks do the same thing. I make it a point not to do it even if I'm the nominal MT or the superiorly geared tank. Nothing drives me nuts like assist training a half dozen mobs and the MT taunting each one off the next tank like "stand back, we're actually fighting this one now so let the pro handle it" As far as your experience goes, remember it was a PuG and the other tank outgeared you. You got loot, move on. Don't get down on yourself. All things being equal, a better geared tank should out threat you. If he chooses to make a point of it, well, again, its a PuG. Don't lose faith in yourself because someone else is a prick. |
| Posted 10-31-2008 at 10:08 PM by Horacio |
| |
And OP, keep your head up. Pallies are highly threatened we've encroached on "their turf" by AoE tanking. Next time, make the pally tank the Dragonhawks that are hatched, and you tank the boss :P Consecrate still a bit easier to pick up all the 'hawks. | |
| Posted 10-31-2008 at 10:59 PM by AoDraka |
| | Is Judgement of Light still 'broken'? For a while, all attacks made on a target with JoL would credit threat towards the paladin. It can feel very belittling (I push amazingly high threat post-3.0 but on Magtheridon our prot paladin was pulling threat off me as if I didn't exist). If you're worried about the impressions you make on people who are better geared than you, don't be. Gear doesn't make people better and, I would say 80% of the time it makes them play dumber. There is always going to be that 20% who has the gear and knows what they're doing, but the two don't -just- go hand-in-hand. If you feel like you don't know what you're doing tanking at all, take a step back and ask yourself if you did all you could in the ZA run. If you answered yes, then you're fine. Just because problems occured it didn't mean you were at fault for them. If you answered no, explore what you could have done and practice on it further. Whether it's your rotation, the way you pull, the way you use your tools, don't take just the bad away from the experience. There's always something you can learn to improve your game for the next time. |
Posted 10-31-2008 at 11:33 PM by Saturday  |
| | What I'm about to say may sound mean/rude to some people so just skip this post if you don't like that type of thing.
You "need" two tanks in ZA for the following: 1. Bear riders 2. Nalorakk 3. Jan'alai 4. Halazzi 1. You can usually dps down a bear rider before it roars on the first double pull, especially if you are using 7 dpsers. You can use a "Shield wall" type effect to survive the second group of bear riders if needed. 2. As you said, he was a paladin. So he could easily bubble-taunt off any debuffs when needed. 3. Jan'alai is easy to solo tank, using two tanks just makes it afk mode for your main tank. 4. Halazzi can still put a hurt on after the patch with a saberlash + regular hit combo, but with enough EH and healers paying attention he can be solo tanked. | |
| Posted 11-01-2008 at 08:57 AM by Dygrav |
| | We had ran ZA the other night with a t6 geared pally and a warrior tank still in some blues. The pally did tank most of the instance, he did however let the warrior tank the human form of Zal and Jan'alai. We were mostly on alts, and I as a tank noticed this, but there is no way that I thought any less of the warrior, because he was way outgeared and a first time ZA tank. They are both in my guild and the pally tank has tanked many successful bear runs. Don't worry about it, nothing much you could do there, it does not reflect on your ability as a tank in any way. Take a lickin' and keep on tickin' |
| Posted 11-01-2008 at 09:24 AM by ndb1983 |
| | I think the overall mindset of tanks these days is "Let's see how badass I can be!" On my warrior I also solo-tanked the majority of ZA, with a fairly inexperienced Prot Pally offtanking for me. His job ended up being taunting off on Bear boss, trying to tank the bear riders (the second pack he couldn't get off), and getting the Lynx on Halazzi. It isn't a reflection on him as a tank (or you, for your scenario), it's just that right now, we're all pretty happy with how things are. You say you know you're a good tank, and that's the first step. Not letting a situation like this effect you is good. If it happens again, just watch how he handles the pulls, his positioning, and the speed he pulls at. Then start your own run and try to do the same thing. Good luck! |
| Posted 11-01-2008 at 10:14 AM by Sydal |
| | Grats on the ZA clear! My first clear also happened after the patch. I made 3 timers and up to Zuljin, but no kill on him until after the patch. Since the patch I have lead 2 ZA's a week. I solo tank most of the instance. I dont even bother to bring along an OT. I just use a ret pally, dps warrior, or feral druid to OT the 3 times I need him to. It might be a good idea to bring along your dps gear if you dont already, and just dps for 95% of the instance. Like others said, just enjoy the easy clear, free badges, and good loots. |
| Posted 11-01-2008 at 12:35 PM by Sheed |
| | Thanks for the support all. Just to make it clear, I don't have anything against Paladins tanking. My guild has several pallies who are (or were) primarily specced prot, and they're solid tanks who know what they're doing. I hadn't heard about the Judgement of Light bug. That sounds like it could have been part of the issue, though I'm not sure. As for feeling like I made a bad impression on some well-geared people - it's not just that they were well geared. A good number of them (maybe even the other tank, I don't clearly remember), were from one of the biggest and most recognized guilds on the server (a french/quebecois guild - Gardiens du Lys). It's really unfortunate. I think I did very well in my first ZA clear. It was a guild run, and the people in my guild know I am a solid tank. They trust that I can hold aggro and stay alive. I generally know the fights, and I have a solid idea of how to handle most situations. It's probably a subject for another post, but I'll take a closer look at my performance while tanking post-patch sometime. |
| Posted 11-01-2008 at 12:43 PM by Thireas |
| | I know how that can be. When I first dinged 70, I actually raided Gruuls before Kara. I felt that all I was supposed to do was hold a mob til the MT had a chance to get at him rather than actually tank. Sometimes, that is just how it is going to be. Eventually with enough sitting back you get to step up and be that person and it feels pretty good. Don't let it get to you and stay confident with your tanking ability. I feel that tanking takes a lot of confidence. So don't get disgruntled and try and take something to learn from every instance you encounter; whether you are the MT or just a mob holder. Good luck! Edit: And as far as a bad impression being made on the top guild or whatever. Forget about them. What matters is that YOUR guild is comfortable with you tanking. |
| Posted 11-02-2008 at 08:47 AM by quikdeth |
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