Unhappy
Posted 10-30-2008 at 02:42 PM by Tatt
Hey all. Most people here know me as a shoutbox lurker, once upon a time tank, wannabe fury guy 
Have not tried the blog thing before, honestly because I did not think I had anything important enough to merit adding to this site. I am not more than a casual number cruncher, nor do I raid hardcore, nor even progressively. I try to help people when I can, and mostly just enjoy speaking to everyone while I am stuck at work for 10-12 hours at a time.
What has prompted me to write this blog is that I think I have found something I am capable of contributing that could help people here. Moderation and consideration. Unfortunately I have noticed a very strange paradigm shift on this site. While not anything near the horrible and juvenile aspect of many other forums, their seems to be a new attitude of absolutism and much harsher criticism than I remember experiencing here when I was a new reader. I remember asking some pretty stupid questions when I started, actually being refered here by someone who did not have the heart to tell me that a lvl 60 couldn't tank shattered halls with a 2hand axe and a prayer People here kindly and considerately answered my questions, sending me private messages if I asked or said anything that was out of line with what was expected here, and it made me not only learn but enjoy coming back everyday to read more. I lived and died by Berg's Gear List and Kaz's Heroic Mech run thru guide.
Lately I feel like new people are expected to understand some of the internal politics or dynamics of this site before they dare comment or ask a question, or else they are pretty much thrown to the wolves. Their also seems to be a very negative attitude in class discussion, in that people are being personally attacked for their opinions, instead of just discussing facts or points of view. I have to say that bothers me more than a little. If their is only one point of view, or one absolute math or absolute fact, than how does anyone ever get any better at this?
I guess what I am trying to say is I hope we all remember that their is always a real person behind every keyboard, and that tearing down their character, class, gear, or opinion, might be taken a lot more personally than many of us think. I am not excusing myself in any way, shape, or form from this criticism, and would like to apologize to anyone who took any comments I have ever made in more than a fun or casual manner. We all have obviously dedicated a considerable portion of our time and energy to this endeavor, and I hope we can all remember that so has everyone else.
Have a great day, and I promise to hide my soap box for a very long time
Have not tried the blog thing before, honestly because I did not think I had anything important enough to merit adding to this site. I am not more than a casual number cruncher, nor do I raid hardcore, nor even progressively. I try to help people when I can, and mostly just enjoy speaking to everyone while I am stuck at work for 10-12 hours at a time. What has prompted me to write this blog is that I think I have found something I am capable of contributing that could help people here. Moderation and consideration. Unfortunately I have noticed a very strange paradigm shift on this site. While not anything near the horrible and juvenile aspect of many other forums, their seems to be a new attitude of absolutism and much harsher criticism than I remember experiencing here when I was a new reader. I remember asking some pretty stupid questions when I started, actually being refered here by someone who did not have the heart to tell me that a lvl 60 couldn't tank shattered halls with a 2hand axe and a prayer
People here kindly and considerately answered my questions, sending me private messages if I asked or said anything that was out of line with what was expected here, and it made me not only learn but enjoy coming back everyday to read more. I lived and died by Berg's Gear List and Kaz's Heroic Mech run thru guide.Lately I feel like new people are expected to understand some of the internal politics or dynamics of this site before they dare comment or ask a question, or else they are pretty much thrown to the wolves. Their also seems to be a very negative attitude in class discussion, in that people are being personally attacked for their opinions, instead of just discussing facts or points of view. I have to say that bothers me more than a little. If their is only one point of view, or one absolute math or absolute fact, than how does anyone ever get any better at this?
I guess what I am trying to say is I hope we all remember that their is always a real person behind every keyboard, and that tearing down their character, class, gear, or opinion, might be taken a lot more personally than many of us think. I am not excusing myself in any way, shape, or form from this criticism, and would like to apologize to anyone who took any comments I have ever made in more than a fun or casual manner. We all have obviously dedicated a considerable portion of our time and energy to this endeavor, and I hope we can all remember that so has everyone else.
Have a great day, and I promise to hide my soap box for a very long time
Total Comments 7
Comments
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NO.. WARRIORS DO NOT NEED A CC ABILITY YOU NEWB FACE!
^^ above is an example of what tatt is talking about. don't respond to people like this.Posted 10-30-2008 at 02:50 PM by hbombs 
- IMHO, this is a quite a common effect of forums. What happens is that firstly when the forum is new there's not much to talk about/persons viewing it. After some time depending on the seriousness of the mods/viewers its actually constructive. Though due to the nature of discussion the concentration of viewers that think alike stays and the others that dislike the site/ideas move on because they either get fed up arguing or just doesn't care anymore. So after a while the guys that have the common general idea stays and their way gets more of a consensus of the forum. People that tries to add to it either feels "its not appropriate", "do they really care" or "hell I don't care". They also diminish to a "new guy ask a simple question, mod/"god person" answer it, End thread" and the interest disappears. Eventually the discussion dies and the forum dies. Ive seen this happen to numerous forums during my time on the Internet (since 1990).
The balancing act here is that the moderators/few authority individuals need to be 100% objective, but that is never the case because most of the time they are actually driven by their interest. Also they act as "god's descending from the heaven and speaks" kind of way and slaps people in their face. Also when the concentration of people thinking in the same consensus they actually may arguing stuff as the mods steer them into by consciously/unconsciously into ideas they like, because they are actually are trying to do their work and not letting things get into flame wars/or get rid of "improper" stuff. Where I come from, in business it's called the "Yes sayer syndrome" and is eventually a bad thing.
Discussions on the web is not really a discussion, if one address an issue, in her opinion, it could be easily ignored/moderated and forgotten. IRL that won't happen, otherwise its not a (proper) discussion.
Sorry for making a large post on your blog.Posted 10-30-2008 at 04:48 PM by Gzipper
Updated 10-30-2008 at 04:57 PM by Gzipper - Not at all, I am hoping for some serious feedback or ideas, ty.
Posted 10-30-2008 at 04:56 PM by Tatt - Just an addition, the cure for the "Yes sayer syndrome" in a business is to fire the management/board. Most of the times on a forum thats not possible/achievable.
Posted 10-30-2008 at 05:17 PM by Gzipper - I totally see that too tatt. This site and many like it are here to HELP new and experienced tanks. Answering any questions they may have or doubts about their opinion. This is essentially a tanking community site with a mix of people thrown in. Everyone should look at someone they feel unknowledgeable and attempt to inform the individual of how things are understood or done. Bashing should not happen in a community though it does, an honest disagreement should end in a "I agree that we disagree on this point" and move on allowing people to see both sides. To be cliche hate only breeds more hate. Not that as a warrior i dont like getting into a good fight :P
Posted 10-30-2008 at 05:58 PM by LxDraco - Part of the problem that I have recently experienced here is that so many of the people here are somewhat jaded by the recent nerfs and just can't wait to get back into serious progression raiding so that when newbie lvl 70 tanks come here (or anywhere) asking questions about Kara they just get "Aoe tank everything, don't worry about marks or strategies" which tbh is a completely unrealistic thing to say and just teaches bad habits. It is sometimes hard to remember, but what a fullt t5/t6 guild does in kara should be very different to a full set of new lvl 70s just taking their first 10man steps.
Like Tatty I lurk in the shoutbox and also like Tatty I hope I give out good advice or point people in the direction of the numbercrunching threads. As the community grows it will become more varied (in every sense). Every single one of us was a newbie, clueless tank at one stage of our wow-careers, and it's important to remember that and to try and put yourself back into their shoes before answering questions.Posted 10-31-2008 at 02:48 AM by Shortypop - Tatt,
Excellent post.
I think it is a symptom of the site becoming more and more popular. I would hazard to guess, the older members aren't the ones causing the problems. It appears to me a lot of the newer members have brought in a poor attitude from other sites and are now using it here.
On the flip side, I can see the frustration about seeing the nth post in the Armory forum "Can I tank Kara." The information is available if people would take time to just click a few links. Polar's Guide and Berg's list are still relevant, it just seems some new members cant take the time to read the information for themselves.
Just a few thoughts of my own...Posted 10-31-2008 at 06:58 PM by Squeegiemama
