Pugging raids
Posted 10-26-2009 at 02:35 AM by Shortypop
I've followed with interest, some degree of irritation and some of understanding the exponential use of gearscores for finding members of PUG raids. My irritation is reasonably low as for as long as I can remember tanks have required minimum stats (or more accurately - hitpoints) to get into PUGs and I see gearscore as merely an extension to that. Also as I only have one character at level 80, linking achievements and having a decent gearscore is fairly easy.
This weekend, with VoA and Ony being taken off our raiding schedule I leapt into the deep end and put myself into LFG for raids for the first time in months. I tanked both 10man Ony and VoA (with different groups - neither of which asked for gearscore, just the respective achievement). Ony went well, apart from the fact that I forgot to focus Ony and realised a little late that she was close to landing - Shorty's little gnome legs took a while to get all the way across the room resulting in a dead ele shammy
VoA was a little more exciting, but we made it through with just one wipe - easily fixed by we changing to 3 healers. We had a DK who just proved that just because you have the achievement doesn't necessarily mean anything - he did less dps than me (I guess about 1.3k); caused all sorts of problems with deathgripping adds and didn't understand the concept of "not standing in the fire". He was also probably a bad advert for gearscore as he was fuilly epicced out in a mix of anything from 200+ gear.
Not feeling quite brave enough to tank VoA/Ony 25 in a pug, I changed my status to DPS only, whispered someone LFM in Dalaran, was told my gearscore was acceptable (still haven't bothered to actually install an addon that tells me it) and off we went. VoA was cleared smoothly with me ending third on the dps (meters were topped by a guildie on a rogue alt) which I was quite happy with. The same guy (prot pally) decided to do an Ony25 and as most people left I said I was going AFK for 2 minutes only to come back and find that I'd been kicked. Several whispers of "Sorry, but why was I kicked?" later it turns out he wants the "2hander" that drops and kicked me!
I thought he meant the polearm (which I can't duelwield) and told him I didn't want it anyway - he did offer me my place back, but I refused on principle! A little later I was told there is also a 245 2handed sword that drops which I could have used, but realistically even if he went DPS (VoA was run on the main>off rule), forming a raid with no one who uses 2 handers must be a lot of fun!! More irritatingly, if he'd only asked I would have been happy not to roll on either!
So, I emerged slightly scathed, or truth be told more irritated than anything else, from my pugging experience - I did learn one thing and that was what my gearscore is for my dps and tank set, which I guess may be helpful in the long run. I also reaffirmed my belief that those people who PUG (and I mean a real pug with no friends or guildies) on a regular basis are angels.
This weekend, with VoA and Ony being taken off our raiding schedule I leapt into the deep end and put myself into LFG for raids for the first time in months. I tanked both 10man Ony and VoA (with different groups - neither of which asked for gearscore, just the respective achievement). Ony went well, apart from the fact that I forgot to focus Ony and realised a little late that she was close to landing - Shorty's little gnome legs took a while to get all the way across the room resulting in a dead ele shammy
VoA was a little more exciting, but we made it through with just one wipe - easily fixed by we changing to 3 healers. We had a DK who just proved that just because you have the achievement doesn't necessarily mean anything - he did less dps than me (I guess about 1.3k); caused all sorts of problems with deathgripping adds and didn't understand the concept of "not standing in the fire". He was also probably a bad advert for gearscore as he was fuilly epicced out in a mix of anything from 200+ gear.Not feeling quite brave enough to tank VoA/Ony 25 in a pug, I changed my status to DPS only, whispered someone LFM in Dalaran, was told my gearscore was acceptable (still haven't bothered to actually install an addon that tells me it) and off we went. VoA was cleared smoothly with me ending third on the dps (meters were topped by a guildie on a rogue alt) which I was quite happy with. The same guy (prot pally) decided to do an Ony25 and as most people left I said I was going AFK for 2 minutes only to come back and find that I'd been kicked. Several whispers of "Sorry, but why was I kicked?" later it turns out he wants the "2hander" that drops and kicked me!
I thought he meant the polearm (which I can't duelwield) and told him I didn't want it anyway - he did offer me my place back, but I refused on principle! A little later I was told there is also a 245 2handed sword that drops which I could have used, but realistically even if he went DPS (VoA was run on the main>off rule), forming a raid with no one who uses 2 handers must be a lot of fun!! More irritatingly, if he'd only asked I would have been happy not to roll on either!
So, I emerged slightly scathed, or truth be told more irritated than anything else, from my pugging experience - I did learn one thing and that was what my gearscore is for my dps and tank set, which I guess may be helpful in the long run. I also reaffirmed my belief that those people who PUG (and I mean a real pug with no friends or guildies) on a regular basis are angels.
Total Comments 11
Comments
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Idiots rarely organize pug raids. It's easy to memorize them and stay clear of them.
We only run 10s leaving the 25s mostly to PUGs so I know what I'm talking about.
Gearscore IS necessary. This weekend I healed thru a PUG Ony25. The raid leader kicked blue/green queststuff geared folks. Stupidity and insantity is a common trait.
Pugging raids is a little bit like gambling TBH.
But one thing is for sure. I don't want to tank 25man PUGs. The one time I did DPS decided to go full out on Onyxia before I even had her positioned.Posted 10-26-2009 at 03:13 AM by Mačl 
- From what you describe in the above blog, I get the feeling that PUG culture varies from server to server, as my experiences differ quite wildly from your own. On my server (US|Frostmourne|Alliance) we are still yet to be gripped by the reign of terror (in my opinion) of gearscore, and are happy with a simple achiev and stat whisper.
I PUG about half of my raids, and Naxx's, Ony's, VOA's and 1 drake Sarth's are fodder for the determined pick-up group, pulling off most of these less complex and less strategic raids in good (if not great) time. I had almost earnt the undying in a naxx 25 PUG run late on last week, before being brought down unceremoniously by a healer disconnect on Sapphiron. Disappointing, to say the least.
It seems that what almost constitutes a PUG core has started to develop, with a lot of faces popping up often, which leads me to feel a lot safer when organising who's going to have my back.
Before this Wall of Terror becomes any more bloated than it already is, i will leave you with the thought that although the player base in guildless/runless players may differ from server to server, maybe you yourself should try and orchestrate one of these simpler PUG's, and maybe if you show a little faith in your PUG'ers (while still being discerning) then they will show a little faith in you.Posted 10-26-2009 at 11:31 AM by Knockyouout -
No. It's not.Quote:Gearscore IS necessaryPosted 10-26-2009 at 12:45 PM by Ion - Gearscore is a piss-poor, lazy way for people who don't understand how other classes work to attempt to act informed.
Posted 10-26-2009 at 01:38 PM by Bovinity - I agree to watch the PUGS that you start running but back when Naxx 25 was a great way to gear and Ulduar was just becoming broken in on my server, I made a very consistent schedule to PUG a Naxx25 every Thursday at 8pm ST. After the first successful run people started hanging around to raid with me. Call it a PUG Guild farming Naxx 25, but that is what we did. I had a PUG help me lead, gave him assist and went at it. After the third week, and checking players for gearscore we just stopped caring. If people want to come and have the attitude then they are coming regardless of gear. Yes we carrid many alts, and PUGs that need the gear, but my newly accompanied friend and I, became famous over the server. We ended starting a second Naxx25 at the same time and got one of my RL friends to run it. Went smoothly and the gear kept rolling. One week we all had a race to get Naxx25 done. We won from more due experience of PUGing it every week and got it done in 2 hours and 45 mins. We had a few dps under the tank. Believe it was 2. They were fresh 80's, that's for sure. Though taking the people not quite geared, and helping them gave them a chance and improved our PUG each week. The same people wanted in and more kept trying to get it.
In all, I believe the PUG is not run by gearscore, but a selection of people willing to let whoever the lead the raid and use their strategy. Remember that a great leader willing to be patient and explain the strategy over and over will prevail over the less impatient, who want to trash through and just get gear. The game is for fun.Posted 10-26-2009 at 02:41 PM by Fusik - On our server three independent people (that I know of) organize fairly regular PuG raids to the small instances. Almost always they go by knowing people and having a brain. The brain score of their PuGs is usually quite high, and they're reasonably successful.
Posted 10-26-2009 at 09:35 PM by Machus - Pugs can be ugly. I think my last VoA attempt I got kicked for not having the required health. After that I just couldn't be bothered to put up with that sort of crap and left VoA raids for what they were.
Posted 10-27-2009 at 12:54 AM by Aethelas - Well, I have made myself a name as a healer on my server. So usually when I join a pug I'm cordially greeted.
Except for those godawful PUGs where I don't know anybody or worse there are known baddies.
My pet peeve with PUGs in general is that they don't want to put any effort in it.
30 minutes after invite the group is full and the first ports are done. 15 minutes later the last peon has arrived. 10 minutes to get up and going. That's nearly an hour from invite til we stand in front of Onyxias cavern.
10 minutes to clear the trash.
2 wipes.
They give up.
I mean, WTF?
How often have YOU wiped on Ony in vanilla until she was dead? And that was a guild run...Posted 10-27-2009 at 03:57 AM by Mačl - It also helps if the person building the raid has a reasonable understanding of raid stacking. I rarely know how many healers we need, what buffs stack, who gives replenishment and so on, so I can only organize a kind of random raid to VoA. Someone who knows the basics and takes the time to note everyone's spec would be more successful for real instances.
Posted 10-27-2009 at 04:30 AM by Machus - Gearscore was a good idea in concept. However in function it's being used to promote laziness, and desire for carrying by the general public. It's even to the point of ignorant. You know, those people who say "I don't know how ______ works." It takes a few minutes to learn the basics from someone, but it's worth it. Not just during the encounter, but also gear and loot. (helps seperate newbie greed from true need.)
Raid leaders or the informed delegate should examine gear in depth to make sure that the player is making intelligent choices about how their gear is put together - not base it off an arbitrary numeric value. If you don't take the time to get to know your pugs, then you're probably lining up a baddie - no matter what the number says.Posted 10-27-2009 at 07:45 AM by Conreeaght - Gear Score can be artificially inflated. You can buy it with emblems. That's the big issue. I'd rather take a person in blues and greens that knows what the heck they are doing than a gearscore of 4000 who doesn't have a clue.
Posted 10-28-2009 at 10:46 PM by CatabriOnEarthen
