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[archive] Relative Value of Block

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Posted 07-31-2009 at 07:23 AM by Satorri
Updated 07-31-2009 at 02:24 PM by Satorri

1455 4892

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I pulled data from the Armory from 4 tanks in heavy late Ulduar gear who's gear selection/gemming/enchanting I trust to be top notch. There's not much I can do for the fact that they all likely have multiple gear setups for different situations, but I'll trust that they're wearing a reasonably balanced set for the stats I'm taking (they look like it). I won't disclose names, but they will be my representatives for the 4 classes. Here are the base stats presented, as above, without raid buffs:

Warrior:
35,106 Health
25,350 Armor
28.47% Dodge+19.31% Parry+9.40% Miss = 57.18% total avoidance
10% dmg rdx from Def Stance
19.83% Block Chance + (1175 block value + 30% chance to double block value when blocking) = 1528 crit adj avg block value

Paladin:
36,969 Health
26,082 Armor
25.08% Dodge+18.79% Parry+9.00% Miss = 52.87% total avoidance
6% dmg rdx (Righteous Fury) + 3% dmg rdx (SotT) + 3% (Glyph of Divine Plea) = 11.56% dmg rdx
15.08% Block Chance + 1464 block value + 12.5% block chance (Redoubt)
(bv assumes 100% uptime of Holy Shield to keep Tome buff, additional chance ideal procs on Redoubt reaching about 42% uptime)

Death Knight:
37,121 Health (in pres)
27,436 Armor
29.48% Dodge+16.89% Parry+9.09% Miss = 55.46% total avoidance
5% dmg rdx (Frost Pres) + 5% dmg rdx (Blade Barrier) = 9.75% dmg rdx
(Blade Barrier assumed 100% uptime, avoidance includes relic averaging ~75% uptime)

Bear:
37,937 Health (in shift)
27,740 Armor
40.07% Dodge+5.40% Miss = 45.47% total avoidance
12% dmg rdx (Bear Talented)
41% "Block" chance + 1193 "block" value
("block" chance is derived from attack speed and crit chance [26.22%], and block value is flat from AP [4773])

================================================== ======
**disclaimer: remember this is before raid buffs which will effect different classes differently, and not all tanks have the same buffs available. This is also not meant to be a class comparison, the 4 tanks' gear is not identical in level. This is just an example with real numbers from each of the classes.**

Warrior Tank Breakdown (avg ilvl = 227.8):

Quote:

25,350 Armor (60.38% dmg reduction)
57.18% total Avoidance
10% Dmg Rdx (stance)
19.83% Block Chance + 1528 block value = 708 avg block/swing

Survival Breakdown:
60k per 2.0 sec = 30k idps (base value)
Avoidance = 57.18% swings do 0 dmg = 12846 idps (57.2% rdx)
Armor = 60.38% rdx of dmg/swing = 5090 idps (25.9% rdx)
Stance/Buff = 10.0% rdx of dmg/swing = 4581 idps (1.7% rdx)
Block = 708 dmg rdx avg per swing = 4429 idps (0.51% rdx)
Final iDPS: 4429
total reduction: 85.2%
Chance to be hit: 18.3% (twice), 7.9%(thrice)

Paladin Tank Breakdown (avg ilvl = 225.2):

Quote:

26,082 Armor (61.06% dmg reduction)
52.87% total Avoidance
11.56% Dmg Rdx (stance)
27.58% Block Chance + 1464 block value = 857 avg block/swing

Survival Breakdown:
60k per 2.0 sec = 30k idps (base value)
Avoidance = 52.87% swings do 0 dmg = 14139 idps (52.9% rdx)
Armor = 61.06% rdx of dmg/swing = 5506 idps (28.8% rdx)
Stance/Buff = 11.56% rdx of dmg/swing = 4869 idps (2.1% rdx)
Block = 857 dmg rdx avg per swing = 4667 idps (0.67% rdx)
Final iDPS: 4667
total reduction: 84.4%
Chance to be hit: 22.2% (twice), 10.5%(thrice)

Death Knight (Blood) Tank Breakdown (avg ilvl = 222.5):

Quote:

27,436 Armor (62.25% dmg reduction)
55.46% total Avoidance
9.75% Dmg Rdx (stance)

Survival Breakdown:
60k per 2.0 sec = 30k idps (base value)
Avoidance = 55.46% swings do 0 dmg = 13362 idps (55.5% rdx)
Armor = 62.25% rdx of dmg/swing = 5044 idps (27.7% rdx)
Stance/Buff = 9.75% rdx of dmg/swing = 4552 idps (1.6% rdx)
Block = 0 dmg rdx avg per swing = 4552 idps (0% rdx)
Final iDPS: 4552
total reduction: 84.8%
Chance to be hit: 19.8% (twice), 8.8%(thrice)

Bear Tank Breakdown (avg ilvl = 223.7):

Quote:

28,323 Armor (63.00% dmg reduction)
51.53% total Avoidance
12.00% Dmg Rdx (stance)
19.20% Block Chance + 1206 block value = 479 avg block/swing

Survival Breakdown:
60k per 2.0 sec = 30k idps (base value)
Avoidance = 51.53% swings do 0 dmg = 14541 idps (51.5% rdx)
Armor = 63.00% rdx of dmg/swing = 5380 idps (30.5% rdx)
Stance/Buff = 12.00% rdx of dmg/swing = 4734 idps (2.2% rdx)
Block = 479 dmg rdx avg per swing = 4618 idps (0.44% rdx)
Final iDPS: 4618
total reduction: 84.6%
Chance to be hit: 29.7% (twice), 16.2%(thrice)

*I've added average item level for each tank so that aspect isn't blind, though do note that some of the most ideal items available may be below other iLvls, such as the Bloody Seal trinket from Yogg10.

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Comments

Good stuff. Now i just wonder how it will look with buffed tanks

Posted 07-31-2009 at 09:16 AM by Darkwanderer

TL;DR: Block is terrible for survivability, do not stack it until Blizzard makes major changes.

Giving the average damage reduction per hit makes Block seem much less attractive than it may be. (Using your example), unless you could get over 5600 Block Value, Block is a pointless waste of stats on a piece of gear.

If you could miraculously know when to pop Shield Block (to save yourself from the second hit in a row), you would only need 2800 SBV to make it practical. That is (without Shield Block up) above the cap for Shield Slam (2760).

Of course like you said a real example is much more complex, but we can still clearly see that Block is terrible. Either that or I am totally out of it.

Posted 07-31-2009 at 09:27 AM by Ferag Ferag is offline

Your math is a bit of because you don't follow the wow combat table. You take 20% of all incoming hits after you already factored in avoidance.
But if you've already factored in avoidance you should take of the 20% block of the 55% non avoided attacks as percentage point leaving 35% nonavoided nonblocked attacks.

Let's take 100 swings over 240 secondes, dehasted attack, hitting for 22.8 like in your first example.
45% avoidance 1250 block 20% blockchance. You get the following numbers: 45 swings hit for 0, 20 swings hit for 20*(22800-1250)=431000 and 35 swings hit for 35*22800=798000 for a total of 1229000 or 5120,83 dps.

Posted 07-31-2009 at 10:34 AM by orcstar orcstar is online now

Hi, I respectfully disagree with Ferag on block's help with survivability. It's good in a sense because it helps reduce aka mitigate damage, just like armor. It's bad because of it's consistency issue (not taking into consideration class block forcing mechanics like Shield block, Holy shield, that if they are up consistently will certianly help with survivability indefinetly). I'll take what I can get to help with surviability because it's little advantages like that that add up to give you a large collective advantage.

Just doing some simple math for a warrior. (using sat's numbers)
Shield block value: 1175 = A
Shield block value w/ shield block: 2350 = B
Shield block value w/ critical block: 1528 = C
Shield block value w/ critical block + Shield block: 3056 = D
Mitigated incomming damage: 30,000 = E

A/E = 1175/30,000 = 3.91% Damage reduction
B/E = 2350/30,000 = 7.83% " "
C/E = 1528/30,000 = 5.09% " "
D/E = 3056/30,000 = 10.18% " "

Even if my math is incorrect ( I apologize if it isn't), if you block damage you're reducing incomming damage which is still relevant as a tank. Yes, block value gear isn't as a good as other gear in a given situation, but it still has some strengths. Questing and doing heroics as prot is amazing with block value gear.

Now, I'm going to use all the same values as before with the exception the incomming damage being changed for heroics and questing (I got the incomming damage numbers using the beast lore info from "level 80 boss AP post on tankspot" by a subposter Fenier, I then calculated the armor and stance damage reduction using Sat's info for the war). Any percentage 100 or greater is consider a full block.

Shield block value: 1175 = A
Shield block value w/ shield block: 2350 = B
Shield block value w/ critical block: 1528 = C
Shield block value w/ critical block + Shield block: 3056 = D
Average Mitigated incomming damage from Infested Jormungar (normal): 274 = F
Average Mitgated incomming damage from Azure mage slayer (elite): 369 = G

F | G
A: 428% (Full block) 318%
B: 857% 637%
C: 557% 414%
D: 1115% 828%

If I'm right, like I said for heroics and questing, blocking is a beautiful stat to have. In raids not so much, but it still is absolutely better than nothing.

I think one of the stronger factors that determine the strength of block value gear is the denominator. As it gets larger and larger the reduction gets reduced further (reduced to zero if and only if you don't block). Conversly, if the denominator becomes smaller than the numerator the reduction becomes greater. Luckily for us, that number (denominator) will not reach infiniti when you block. And as I said, I'll take what I can get for damage reduction. Only catch is I personally (as a war) have to keep up shield block up as often as possible and also at the best time possible, which can be challenging.

Death Knight's have a 5% damage reduction (blade barrier). It's better than block in a sense because it can be up consistently, and if done well, constantly. Though it's benifits aren't as great in 5 man heroics and questing.

Blade barrier*E = 5% of 30,000 = 1,500 ( similar to the wars BV)
Blade barrier*F = 5% of 274 = 260 ( not so close to the wars BV)
Blade barrier*G = 5% of 369 = 350 " "

I don't see many Death knight's giving up giving up this 5% damage reduction as tanks, so why would I as a warrior not try and impliment that same ethos with my block forcing ability?

Yes, block gear takes a lower priority than other tanking gear (Stam, def, avoidence, expertise, hit, block), but it shouldn't be totally negated. Damage reduction when it happens is still damage reduction. Now, I don't really know how to calculate it, but what if you had demo shout+TC+shieldblock up all at the same time? As I showed before blocking becomes more powerful as the incomming damage gets reduced so if AP reduction like abilities are debuffing you're target then block is going to work much better (If and only if you block which is the crappy part).

Satorri, you take a paladins Holyshield into consideration, but you don't count a warriors shield block why (Uptime consideration)? Still as always you do a great job with these posts. They get me thinking.

Posted 07-31-2009 at 06:20 PM by Bluepepper Bluepepper is offline

Block Rating will reduce incoming DPS, but without immense Block Value will do little to nothing to ensure you survive that second hit in a row. You can have any sort of average damage reduction from blocking you like, but you will still be dead come that second hit.

Shield Block is not reliably used every cooldown, as it is used mainly for the Shield Slam bonus than the damage reduction it provides.

Death Knights would have just about 100% uptime on Blade Barrier I believe, unless you are stacking Block Rating as a Warrior, you will not come close to 102.4% Block/Dodge/Parry/Miss. So it is more RNG. You cannot depend on Blocking the next hit, just as you cannot depend on Dodging the next hit. We stack Stamina for a reason.

End result:
1) Without 102.4% Block/Dodge/Parry/Miss, Block is RNG.
2) Block may provide an incoming DPS reduction, but will not likely save you from that second hit.

Ramblings from a slightly drunken tank, correct me at will.

Posted 08-01-2009 at 08:20 PM by Ferag Ferag is offline

	Good stuff. Now i just wonder how it will look with buffed tanks
	Posted 07-31-2009 at 09:16 AM by Darkwanderer

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