Since when has tanking not been fun?
Posted 09-10-2008 at 10:36 AM by salihe
There's this topic that's been getting thrown around a lot lately, by a lot of different people, regarding making tanking "more fun." I see it everywhere....on GW's beta posts, on Cider's news bulletins, on random forum threads. Everyone seems to be all excited about making tanking "more fun."
The unspoken implication of this, of course, is that, prior to all this, tanking has not been fun. When did this happen?
Speaking for myself and from my personal experience, I don't understand where that attitude came from. I lvl'ed fury, just for the sake of speed and went prot once when I was in the mid-50s, just to check it out, and I hated it. There was way less variety of attacks compared to fury and the attacks there were didn't do much of anything. Keep in mind, I had no tanking gear on whatsoever. Needless to say, I hated it.
That was then, however, and this is now, and as of right now, I absolutely love tanking. I find it a blast. Tanking a heroic, or a 10 man is by far my favorite and the funnest thing I can possibly do in-game. I love standing there, tanking Curator for the 5-6 minutes it takes to bring him down, and it really doesn't matter to me that I'm basically hitting Devastate, Shield Slam, Shield Block, Heroic Strike, and Revenge over and over again. I love the challenge of fighting my dps for aggro. I love being in charge of the group, controlling the speed and tempo (and pissing off the mana-users because I'm not giving them time to drink after every pull), and having the responsibility of the group more or less rest on my shoulders.
As far as WoW goes, I can't think of anything more fun. Oh, sure, I'm sure it's a gas getting random some-odd-thousand crits and whatnot, but like someone said in the thread that Cider started way back, asking for ideas on shirt designs, "It's not about causing the most damage, it's about taking the most."
I mean, what could be more fun than not dying after getting beat on for several minutes at a time by a boss who absolutely towers over you, a boss who would one-shot just about everyone else in teh entire group?
I dunno. All this talk about making tanking more fun is all well and good, but speaking for myself, I'm having a ball just the way it is now.
The unspoken implication of this, of course, is that, prior to all this, tanking has not been fun. When did this happen?
Speaking for myself and from my personal experience, I don't understand where that attitude came from. I lvl'ed fury, just for the sake of speed and went prot once when I was in the mid-50s, just to check it out, and I hated it. There was way less variety of attacks compared to fury and the attacks there were didn't do much of anything. Keep in mind, I had no tanking gear on whatsoever. Needless to say, I hated it.
That was then, however, and this is now, and as of right now, I absolutely love tanking. I find it a blast. Tanking a heroic, or a 10 man is by far my favorite and the funnest thing I can possibly do in-game. I love standing there, tanking Curator for the 5-6 minutes it takes to bring him down, and it really doesn't matter to me that I'm basically hitting Devastate, Shield Slam, Shield Block, Heroic Strike, and Revenge over and over again. I love the challenge of fighting my dps for aggro. I love being in charge of the group, controlling the speed and tempo (and pissing off the mana-users because I'm not giving them time to drink after every pull), and having the responsibility of the group more or less rest on my shoulders.
As far as WoW goes, I can't think of anything more fun. Oh, sure, I'm sure it's a gas getting random some-odd-thousand crits and whatnot, but like someone said in the thread that Cider started way back, asking for ideas on shirt designs, "It's not about causing the most damage, it's about taking the most."
I mean, what could be more fun than not dying after getting beat on for several minutes at a time by a boss who absolutely towers over you, a boss who would one-shot just about everyone else in teh entire group?
I dunno. All this talk about making tanking more fun is all well and good, but speaking for myself, I'm having a ball just the way it is now.
Total Comments 18
Comments
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They're saying it's going to be "more fun," which indicates a general improvement, not that it's going to be "fun," which would imply that it had not been fun previously. Just because it's already fun doesn't mean it can't be even more fun. Whether or not that particular "more fun" is your idea of fun is a legitimate argument, but I don't see "more fun" as an indictment of tanking in its current form. Just as there is always room for improvement of your tanking skills, Blizzard always has room to improve the tanking experience.
As an aside, Curator is probably one of the least fun tanking experiences for me. That fight is all about the DPS and healers. Moroes, on the other hand, is one of my favorites, because there's so much activity and so much the tank has to be responsible for. From what I've read on the Naxx60 fights, I am slavering in anticipation for New Naxx.Posted 09-10-2008 at 11:09 AM by Orenus 
- Oh, I absolutely agree. It's just seemed to me that so many things I've read regarding the subject seemed to almost have a sense of relief, as if people are thinking, "Finally, it'll be enjoyable to tank..."Quote:Blizzard always has room to improve the tanking experience.
I do see your point about it becoming "more" fun not automatically implying that it hasn't been fun all along. That's just the impression I've been getting from what I've been reading.
Oh, and I, too, have heard stories of vanilla wow Naxx, and they make me want to put together a group of, say, 10 or 15 geared 70s and go run it now, before they erase it from the old world. I know absolutely nothing about the attunement process (or if there even still is one), but that'd be an easy fix.Posted 09-10-2008 at 11:33 AM by salihe - I agree Tanking is currently fun while you are tanking. But in between instances while you are grinding it is very slow and painfull. It takes at least 1.5X times longer to complete SW dailies as a prot warrior than everyone else. Which also leaves us as prime ganking material. More fun would be faster grinding when not tanking.
Posted 09-10-2008 at 11:44 AM by Torpeedo - It's only really bad in blues and greens. DW Prot in mediocre to decent fury gear (I have a mix of blues and some T4 purples) can put out decent damage. You won't be seeing rogue numbers, but I can drop quest mobs on QD in 1/4th the time of an S2 arms warrior. I'm on a PVE server now, but I do remember the ganking before I transferred and you're right on that. At least I could smash rogues if I was in my tank gear.Quote:It takes at least 1.5X times longer to complete SW dailies as a prot warrior than everyone else.
Posted 09-10-2008 at 11:56 AM by Orenus
Updated 09-10-2008 at 12:02 PM by Orenus - I think the implication is that tanking is fun, but it's not fun for EVERYBODY...lol.
I mean, I find it fun, you find it fun, and I think I can safely assume that everyone here at TankSpot finds it fun, or we wouldn't be here in the first place. We'd be at HealSpot or ZomgDPSMetersEpeenSpot, or some other Spot I've yet to make up. Among other tanks, it's hard to understand why someone else might not want to tank, because you're among folk that honestly love to tank.
But there's lots of folks in my guild that have given tanking a try, and they hate it. Out of the 11 70 warriors in my guild, there's one tank.
One.
Uno.
And you're reading his comment right now...lol.
I guess my point is that tanking appeals to certain types of people, and that, for someone who doesn't fit into one of those categories, tanking can be sort of a chore. And these changes are being made to broaden the appeal of tanking, presumably.
The only thing I fear about broadening the tanking base is that tanking might become as universally easy-mode as, say...playing a fire mage, but the plethora of new abilities and talents has gone a long way towards alleviating my fears that we stoics still have a place in the world.......of warcraft.Posted 09-10-2008 at 12:13 PM by Orkchops - Yeah, in blues and mostly kara purples (with a couple ZA thrown in), I actually fly through QD dailies no problem.
Posted 09-10-2008 at 12:47 PM by Thireas - People like huge yellow numbers flying across their screen. Out of all the tanks, warriors were the ones lacking that ability. Prot pallies and bears both could put out decent damage while tanking due to their threat mechanics. Prot wars on the other hand did most of their threat through innate threat modifiers, not through damage. Shield Slam was the best thing since slice bread for us because it was finally a move that did tons of threat based on damage. And now Bliz has finally gotten the message that we want to see more big yellow numbers, and they are adding just that.
Posted 09-10-2008 at 02:13 PM by Rampart - I kind of agree with you that tanking is fun already, and looks like it will be more fun in WLK because we'll get even better tools to do the job, as well as nice damage (all speaking of warriors) and that will make existing tanks happier. Well that's nice.
As far as making people who didn't want to tank tank, I think Blizzard's excellent changes totally miss the point. Players want to tank or not based on their feelings towards leadership and responsibility, and the intensity of play hey want. Better tanking tools won't change that much.Posted 09-10-2008 at 06:35 PM by Machus - Well sure, there is a lot of fun in holding aggro and surviving a difficult fight - doing things, especially difficult things, very well is gratifying. And yes it is fun. But what % of your WoW time is on boss fights? What about casual players, what % of their time is spent inside instances?
There can be no denying that huge crits are a BLAST. For leveling and dailies and farming and rep/honor grinding, putting up huge damage numbers is fun. And sorry my prot dps is worlds better than it was in blues and greens, but it is still feeble compared to almost any other class. Smashing mobs to pieces is fun! It is what warriors DO!
So I guess the better semantic is that Blizz is trying to make BEING a tank fun. Not just tanking - but being a tank who also has to level and grind and farm for those flasks. Gimme some dps and make THAT fun!Posted 09-10-2008 at 07:11 PM by Ukk - Quote:tanking appeals to certain types of peopleI suppose that is true....everyone has their own standards on the most...umm...glorious role in the game, lol. For me, and I'd imagine most of us (except for Ramparts, lol), it's not about causing those huge yellow numbers, it's about seeing those huge (white) numbers on us. And surviving. I know I already said that, but it just reemphasizes my point.Quote:People like huge yellow numbers flying across their screen.
I kind of have that fear, too, that with all the new abilities, tanking will become too easy, and all sorts of tards will pick it up because they want to get geared first, or they want to brag about how they kept the raid alive, or they just are egotistical and want a place high in the ranks of importance.Quote:The only thing I fear about broadening the tanking base is that tanking might become as universally easy-mode as, say...playing a fire mage,
And I suppose, after so many people mentioning it, I'll agree that grinding as prot isn't my...uhh...favorite thing to do. Oh, it's not terrible...just can get a little tedious, hacking on something for a minute and a half that another dps class could down in 15 seconds.
That being said, however, I still wouldn't trade places for the world.Posted 09-10-2008 at 08:06 PM by salihe - Again, how much of your time is spent inside of an instance? Being a tank blows when you have to go farm dailies, flasks, gold, or whatever else you need to tank. And yes, tanking requires those things. And no, don't tell me to respec. It's quite counter productive to spend 100 gold every day to change specs.
And lol. You twisted my words. I love the thrill of not dying to 10k crushes. I love knowing that my role is what keeps the entire raid together. But you would that by swinging a badass looking sword or axe around should allow me to do some decent dps. It really didn't until they allowed us to attack with our shield. The whole philosophy that was said by GC about tanks being more like Gladiator or 300 is the way it should be. I would like to be able to smash faces without spending 100 gold to change specs and then change gear as well. Tanks don't look like pansies, yet they sure do play like one, not being able to kill anyone. But it looks like WotLK is going in the right direction.Posted 09-10-2008 at 08:27 PM by Rampart - As much as possible...:PQuote:Again, how much of your time is spent inside of an instance?
lol, sorry, it wasn't intentional.Quote:You twisted my words.
And I suppose you're right. Leonidus and his gang wouldn't have had much success if all they did was stand there, not killing anything....or killing things very slowly.
Oh, and as far as the money-making support, I've made it a point the entier time I've been playing to figure a system to make the most money i can with the least effort. Part of that has been to have regular contacts in almost every prof, to get what I need in bulk for cheap (I have over 40 [item]Solid Star of Elune[/item] on my bank alt, just for example), and I have jc's that'll prospect, for free, the ore I get from mining for a few hours. Not to mention, saving every green drop I get and then getting them all disenchanted. All that combined makes way more money than I need. Haven't done dailies in i don't remember how long.
I will grant you, tho, that it wasn't the funnest thing in the world when I did do them.Posted 09-10-2008 at 08:47 PM by salihe - I'm prot specced and I use 2 x 2.7 speed 71 DPS swords with my PvP gear (2 x S2 + 2 x Arena Entry Gear - something around 1350 AP 25 crit unbuffed) and I had totaly no problems with QD at all! I cut through all the mobs without a need to heal as often as I had to when I was MS Arena specced.
I was surprised I can do so much DPS! I love dailing as Prot
Posted 09-11-2008 at 03:28 AM by r45hnu -
- I might actually start this website.Quote:ZomgDPSMetersEpeenSpot.com
Tanking can be fun (I think it will be a lot more fun with the coming talent changes), but on some fights (for instance Curator & Prince), you're not even doing anything except tagging 2344, 2344 over and over, with an occasional 6 thrown in if you need the extra 20% damage reduction. 6 is my TC. You have to get in place, then you just tap the buttons in order. I've literally eaten a sandwich during Prince.
On the flip side, I am really looking forward to being able to AoE tank some. I've been told several times that I don't belong in Heroic Magister's because I'm a warrior, because I don't have the AoE. Right or wrong, that gets a bit frustrating. I'd like to be able to tank trash in my tank gear (I know, its a silly thing) instead of my dps gear.
I've been told that there is less aoe stuff in LK and that's fine but I still really like the talents that we have to look forward too.
For now, I'm playing my Shaman. When the new patch comes out I'll give it another shot, but for now I'm just another warrior who is just plain not tanking 5-mans.Posted 09-11-2008 at 07:54 AM by Smaken - I absolutely LOVE tanking as a paladin but Fun describes the Rep and Honor farming which i rather avoid as protection speced.
That where the FUN part might be great.Posted 09-11-2008 at 12:22 PM by BoJlk - Am I the only one that puts on DPS gear and then farms dailies/etc in battle or defensive stance with my shield on? I find the reduced downtime + bit shield slams is sexier than DW'ing. Note that in addition to the dps armor, I do take off my normal HS tanking weapon and load up the Decapitator for this.
Posted 09-12-2008 at 03:20 PM by Tengaaris - I don't know what exactly dps gear you're using, but speaking for myself, I'd rather take upwards of 2 minutes to kill a mob, sometimes, than to take be lazy and take the welfare epic route. That's mostly due to my moral bias against very un-epic-ly (?) being handed epics for mindless running around bgs for a pre-determined amount of time. I refuse to get gear in a way so simple, a computer program (bot) could actually do it for me, and as such, I pay that penalty (which is ridiculous, if you ask me), but it's a price I pay gladly.
Again, not saying that's where or how you got your dps gear. I'm just inherently and morally opposed to the whole concept (at least to the concept of pvp dps gear being allowed to be used outside of a pvp context).
Oh, and Smaken....maybe it's because I just woke up 15 minutes ago, but how does TC give you a 20% dmg reduction? Did you mean SB instead?Posted 09-12-2008 at 04:15 PM by salihe - Morally opposed to pvp gear.... urgh I think its time we all shut off the computer and went outside.
Posted 09-12-2008 at 04:54 PM by ratman
