Dead Beat Raiders
Posted 01-23-2009 at 04:02 PM by PvtCaboose
Updated 01-23-2009 at 04:04 PM by PvtCaboose (Alt + TAB + Space = No win win)
Updated 01-23-2009 at 04:04 PM by PvtCaboose (Alt + TAB + Space = No win win)
I've been raiding with the same guild for about 6months to a year now. In that time I've seen alot go down to people being kicked outta raids and people going on tantrums from lack of loot. It wasnt till I became an officer a little while ago that I saw what really we had to deal with.
I now look at WWS constantly and see who is doing what they are supposed to do and what they aren't. We've got healers who DPS durning boss fights like 2D OS. DPS who have very nice gear but do less than 3k dps. DPS who open up with AOE then bitch about dying when I only get 1 thunderclap in.
We have cleared all current content at the moment except for 3D OS which hopefully we'll be doing this week coming. In this time of looking at everything that goes on I've got to the idea that some of our raiders are "dead beats" or just there to fill a spot and screw around. Dont get me wrong I like alot of our raiders. They are great nice people that just dont get the job done. But being nice or not we're not getting stuff down we should be one shotting. Or maybe a couple shots. Malygos is the best example of it. When we get him down we have 5-8 people at a high number of dots (20+) we have the rest anywhere in the range of 1-10. And I've finally got recount working so where I can see who's "pet" is doing what damage. I assume 4k dps on the pet is good - We did 25 maly and myself (being chose 5 times) was 3rd and the two above me were chose once each.
Its frustrating when people aren't pulling their weight and I want to see this guild succeed but for it to do that I need to talk to the guild leader and tell him that I think its time to start sitting people for not preforming up to snuff. Someone in full t7.5 gear should be doing at least above 3k dps and thats being very lienant. I dont want to do it, it makes me feel bad but I feel its the only way to get through to them tell them if they aren't going to do what they are supposed to do. Give them one more week worth of raids and then start doing it.
What do you guys think is a good way to handle this?
I now look at WWS constantly and see who is doing what they are supposed to do and what they aren't. We've got healers who DPS durning boss fights like 2D OS. DPS who have very nice gear but do less than 3k dps. DPS who open up with AOE then bitch about dying when I only get 1 thunderclap in.
We have cleared all current content at the moment except for 3D OS which hopefully we'll be doing this week coming. In this time of looking at everything that goes on I've got to the idea that some of our raiders are "dead beats" or just there to fill a spot and screw around. Dont get me wrong I like alot of our raiders. They are great nice people that just dont get the job done. But being nice or not we're not getting stuff down we should be one shotting. Or maybe a couple shots. Malygos is the best example of it. When we get him down we have 5-8 people at a high number of dots (20+) we have the rest anywhere in the range of 1-10. And I've finally got recount working so where I can see who's "pet" is doing what damage. I assume 4k dps on the pet is good - We did 25 maly and myself (being chose 5 times) was 3rd and the two above me were chose once each.
Its frustrating when people aren't pulling their weight and I want to see this guild succeed but for it to do that I need to talk to the guild leader and tell him that I think its time to start sitting people for not preforming up to snuff. Someone in full t7.5 gear should be doing at least above 3k dps and thats being very lienant. I dont want to do it, it makes me feel bad but I feel its the only way to get through to them tell them if they aren't going to do what they are supposed to do. Give them one more week worth of raids and then start doing it.
What do you guys think is a good way to handle this?
Total Comments 7
Comments
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Having similar issues myself as the GM of my guild, haven't moved into 25 man content, but I've got some people with 2k+ gear ratings epiced out.. that can't break 2k...
We're holding guildmeeting/training session in stormwind at the dummies to talk about the things we expect and to do a little training session.Posted 01-23-2009 at 04:48 PM by Glomgore 
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When you have members that aren't performing and you can compare them to guildies that are the same class they should be able to help each other. For instance, we have class X that was doing amazing dps, and another one in almost identical gear that wasn't. I told the member that was subpar to talk to the other member that wasn't to find out what he was gemming/chanting and what his rotations were. Now he's where he's supposed to be.
Players also have to take it upon themselves to do the research and gain the knowledge that is needed in order to improve. Anyone who doesn't do that is lazy and not commited to the guild, one of the many who try to do just enough to squeak by.
As an officer, try to take it upon yourself to talk to the individuals and tell them to reach out to thier fellow class...uh....mates because if they can't bring the pain, you'll find someone that can.Posted 01-23-2009 at 05:29 PM by Inaara - Well I don't know, I got kicked out of my guild for telling people they didn't perform, and therefore wouldn't raid until they did. Apparently I was too "abrassive". The only way to tell people to get people to step up, is to tell them to do it, or they won't raid. The carrot doesn't work because people are going to be able to get their gear no matter what, so sometimes you have to revert to the stick.
Posted 01-23-2009 at 05:49 PM by wannabebum - I believe we've given them ample amount of time to get their stuff together. In LK when we started to do Naxx it wasnt as noticeable but when we got to doing Malygos is where they really had showed us how they can preform. Some nights I get so frustrated that I just want to gquit on the spot but dont because I owe alot to this guild and I want to see them succeed. There is a mage in our guild who has 70 points in fire and no +hit gear. I've already started to talk to him tell him to look at my mage (was my main in BC and now I'm a tank
But its 80 and I've got a pretty standard spec) and gem/chant for hit. Now if he doesnt do it say he changes spec into arcane its not the "best spec" but I was arcane in BC and I could do 2500+ dps (IIRC actually I dont remember the number... but I remember I was one of the best casters in the guild). If he doesnt and his dps is still lacking is it okay that I get them benched? I can think of over half our guildies who arent preforming at their best but I cant do anything about it atm besides talk to them. Would it be better to susspend loot or just not get them to raid?
I try to point them in the right direction I even have gone as far as reading up on other classes that I dont play in order to learn more about them. Its frustrating seeing a guild that has so much potential be unextroidnary (man my spelling sucks).Posted 01-23-2009 at 08:36 PM by PvtCaboose - In our guild for 10s and 25s, you don't roll if you don't do more than x dps.
Say vault 25, 1800 dps is min
vault 10, 1500
Both I think are easily attainable for anyone who claims to dps.Posted 01-23-2009 at 11:15 PM by AxLxExX - One of the guilds I was in had the concept of putting people on Probation for failure to perform. They where then given two full weeks to get up to where they where supposed to be or they where sitting until they could prove they had it back together.
For more casual/friendly guilds I suspect that a system like this will tend to work better because you don't just kick them out of the raid, you put them on notice they need to improve first and have a defined time period within which to improve. For that guild it worked everytime we had to resort to it.Posted 01-24-2009 at 07:30 AM by Karih - I would think you would want to create a guild charter - a set of rules - before you go enforcing something that is merely your expectations. Once the framework is laid down its merely a matter of holding up that framework.
I wouldn't use a "stick".. thats just dumb. Just be smart. Create your A team and a B team and make the A team stay ahead of the B or else they get demoted and make your B strive to be the A team so they can get promoted or if all is well work on creating a C team and then eventually earn into 25 man raiding.
Even those lackluster people are paying to play the game. Simple fact is they may just need a little help or a little umph and honestly some of them may just be in it for the fun where a B team is more viable for them period.
Kicking people for the sake of judgmentally kicking people creates a poor raid atmosphere unless that expectation was set as a condition to get into the guild (such as a server top guild)Posted 01-24-2009 at 10:05 AM by blahism
