On Paladin Taunt and Maggy
Posted 08-25-2008 at 04:36 AM by Norrath
So, yesterday, one of my friends invited my paladin along on a Gruul run with his raid group.
Needless to say, since his raid group is the furthest progressed on the server (beating themselves up against M'uru at the moment, I believe -- though don't quote me on that), both Maulgar and Gruul were one-shot, despite mainly comprising of alts and randoms. I didn't exactly do much aside from keep JoV up, but I had fun regardless. All the loot was available via rolls, though they were still ML'd. Didn't win anything (got all three types of tokens), but my friend got the warrior shoulders on his alt.
Anyway, then I learn they're going to do Maggy next. I think 'yay, a chance at T4 chest, awesome!' and immediately decide to tag along.
Now, the raid group in question was using Vent to communicate detailed instructions. I tried to get on, but my version of vent is too old, and since we were just doing Gruul, I decided to hell with it. I know those encounters pretty damn well anyway.
My paladin is not very well geared -- 11k health unbuffed, barely uncrushable, 15k armor, etc. Still, I could tank channelers with no problem, right?
I get assigned the second kill, which my friend poked fun at me at. "Now you'll have to learn to do proper threat haha!"
Now, I didn't realize they were using vent to countdown the kill -- I blame being sleepy, but meh -- and it didn't matter during the first attempt, as I managed to catch the channeler fast enough to prevent it running rampant. I had equipped threat gear for it (270s SD), then blew Wings, then started in on my rotation -- and no one came close to pulling it off of me. We kill the channelers in smooth order and move onto Maggy.
Then at 10%, debris kills us -- not sure why. One second we're home free, the next 90% of the raid is dead.
We haul our asses back in there, get ready again... and when they pull, I'm a little too slow to react. I immediately start tossing my shield, but it *missed*. I thought, "SHIT", checked its target (a healadin), then hit RD to get it back.
Two seconds later, three channelers are whacking at me. Apparently the druid who was tanking two had drawn aggro off the healadin just a second before I hit RD. We wiped pretty soon after that.
They immediately start going, "What the hell did you do? Why'd you taunt off the tank?!" and I try to defend myself. I had blundered in not getting off a Judgement rather than start tossing the shield, but I still felt it wasn't my fault. How could I know the channeler would target the druid tank? I explained that I wasn't on vent and so couldn't time myself properly which was why I hadn't been able to grab it in the first place. They still blamed me, but things calmed down fast enough and the RLer decided to do a /rw as well as call it out in vent for my benefit. We try again and this time there's no problem. I immediately judge on 'GO' and we're rolling.
We had another two wipes (unrelated to me), then finally got him down. Two Champion drops, though I don't win either.
That run really opened my eyes to how god-awful annoying RD's ToT mechanics are, and how unwelcome its multi-target nature is.
Gimme a real taunt! One that only affects one target, and which doesn't have the ToT mechanic. RD is a crutch in far too many situations, despite the wonderful, wonderful range it has.
Needless to say, since his raid group is the furthest progressed on the server (beating themselves up against M'uru at the moment, I believe -- though don't quote me on that), both Maulgar and Gruul were one-shot, despite mainly comprising of alts and randoms. I didn't exactly do much aside from keep JoV up, but I had fun regardless. All the loot was available via rolls, though they were still ML'd. Didn't win anything (got all three types of tokens), but my friend got the warrior shoulders on his alt.
Anyway, then I learn they're going to do Maggy next. I think 'yay, a chance at T4 chest, awesome!' and immediately decide to tag along.
Now, the raid group in question was using Vent to communicate detailed instructions. I tried to get on, but my version of vent is too old, and since we were just doing Gruul, I decided to hell with it. I know those encounters pretty damn well anyway.
My paladin is not very well geared -- 11k health unbuffed, barely uncrushable, 15k armor, etc. Still, I could tank channelers with no problem, right?
I get assigned the second kill, which my friend poked fun at me at. "Now you'll have to learn to do proper threat haha!"
Now, I didn't realize they were using vent to countdown the kill -- I blame being sleepy, but meh -- and it didn't matter during the first attempt, as I managed to catch the channeler fast enough to prevent it running rampant. I had equipped threat gear for it (270s SD), then blew Wings, then started in on my rotation -- and no one came close to pulling it off of me. We kill the channelers in smooth order and move onto Maggy.
Then at 10%, debris kills us -- not sure why. One second we're home free, the next 90% of the raid is dead.
We haul our asses back in there, get ready again... and when they pull, I'm a little too slow to react. I immediately start tossing my shield, but it *missed*. I thought, "SHIT", checked its target (a healadin), then hit RD to get it back.
Two seconds later, three channelers are whacking at me. Apparently the druid who was tanking two had drawn aggro off the healadin just a second before I hit RD. We wiped pretty soon after that.
They immediately start going, "What the hell did you do? Why'd you taunt off the tank?!" and I try to defend myself. I had blundered in not getting off a Judgement rather than start tossing the shield, but I still felt it wasn't my fault. How could I know the channeler would target the druid tank? I explained that I wasn't on vent and so couldn't time myself properly which was why I hadn't been able to grab it in the first place. They still blamed me, but things calmed down fast enough and the RLer decided to do a /rw as well as call it out in vent for my benefit. We try again and this time there's no problem. I immediately judge on 'GO' and we're rolling.
We had another two wipes (unrelated to me), then finally got him down. Two Champion drops, though I don't win either.
That run really opened my eyes to how god-awful annoying RD's ToT mechanics are, and how unwelcome its multi-target nature is.
Gimme a real taunt! One that only affects one target, and which doesn't have the ToT mechanic. RD is a crutch in far too many situations, despite the wonderful, wonderful range it has.
Total Comments 10
Comments
 |  They are tauntable now? I didn't know that... heh, I remember when I worked on Maggy pre-nerf and they weren't tauntable, oh boy was that fun with over zealous dps  |
Posted 08-25-2008 at 05:13 AM by Muggs  |
| | That's Pretty lame. I wouldn't consider that your fault, more like the raid leaders for not making sure everyone was completely ready. My biggest thing about RD is the freaking huge c/d. I mean its bad enough that paladins have crap abilities to regain threat once its lost, but if I taunt something with RD and even with a judgement of righteousness that's not a whole lotta threat, and DPS most of the time still manage to pull off me in that situation. Meanwhile gotta wait a whole nother 15 seconds to taunt it back! |
| Posted 08-25-2008 at 05:41 AM by Snurf Updated 08-25-2008 at 09:39 AM by Snurf |
| | I do think its time we got the same taunt.... It has way too many weaknesses... For one I can't force a mob to attack me without it attacking someone else. On my warrior alt i can taunt a target to get rage before it even hits someone a bit risky but very useful sometimes...Paladin taunt you can not do this.. The cooldown is the biggest drawback though wewt go go resist healer did 8 seconds later and your still on CD.. Then theres the mechanics ok so it taunts 3 targets this is only useful on aoe tanking, On trash mobs you have issues taunting especially with other tanks as if they get to be the target you will taunt all their mobs as well I have managed to taunt 2 abominations and a spider a few times because of the mechanic Paladins need a real taunt... What people always fail to see is that the niche of paladin tanking is baseline in consecration. Its not a prot pally niche its a pally of anyspec in tank gear niche ok ret cant get imp RF but still.. Blizz can't go on designing AoE tanking situations with 12 + mobs if they do everyone will be required to bring a paladin and they said they don't want that (As in guilds only bringing a certain tank class). So AoE taunt isn't needed, single target ranged taunt mebe? Though melee taunt isn't bad at all. |
| Posted 08-25-2008 at 07:48 AM by Nicki |
| | Well, I think it was fault of the druid to even run for that add with another channeler/s into healer group while they all do SB-volley. Its not allways about what other say, but what is point of game mechanics. Tanks which are with you in group should realise your ways of taunting.. Things might happen within not even half second, so no way you could be blamed for taunting off him, it probably really happend almost at same moment. But it was just alt run anyway, so no worries. |
| Posted 08-25-2008 at 07:58 AM by Lumirel |
| | @People who want the same taunt as other tanks: Why don't we just make all the tanking classes one exact same class? Each class has its strengths and weaknesses, and you just have to learn to play around them. I'm tired of how the Dev's are copying items to and from classes, make them too similar. |
| Posted 08-25-2008 at 06:50 PM by Poolstick |
| |  @ Poolstick: Try playing pool at a bar with a croquet mallet. When the bouncers are done and you're a bloody wreck in the parking lot, tell me why they kicked you out because I'd really like to know why they'd discriminate against making sure each player was unique. |
| Posted 08-25-2008 at 08:17 PM by Alent |
| | I don't really understand your analogy... Are you trying to say that they want everyone to be the same for a fair game? I understand why people want balance or equality, but then why have multiple classes that all can do the exact same things? |
| Posted 08-25-2008 at 09:42 PM by Poolstick |
| |  Poolstick, that's your prerogative. I would much rather have the minimums necessary to tank than worry about the classes being similar -- and I play one of each class! Honestly, this is the one big lack paladins have right now. A proper taunt. RD is just too gimmicky. I love the range, don't get me wrong, but at the end of the day, I'd rather have a short-range, short-CD taunt that doesn't have the ToT mechanic. |
| Posted 08-25-2008 at 09:58 PM by Norrath |
| | Poolstick, the analogy was twofold: 1: the absurdity was intentionally matched to your statement about devs making the classes too similar. 2: To remind you that you bring the right tool for the right job. Look at it like this, Paladins are ~the AoE tanks from hell~. There is no class in wow that can AoE tank like a paladin. that said, why is it warriors have Challenging Shout, mocking blow and taunt, and paladins have just RD? Let me pose it to you like this: Warriors can't AoE tank like a paladin, but their AoE taunt is infinitely better than a paladins' AoE Taunt. Paladins can't single target tank like a warrior, but they... wait, they don't have a single target taunt. It would make sense to have a single target taunt that's better than a warrior's here but... there is no taunt. When you create things differently, you need to have some logical form of symmetry. Until the paladin has a puny single target taunt and a "mocking blow" counterpart of some form, there's asymmetry, and this is the problem. Symmetry isn't about making things identical. It's about making them equal. Asymmetry on the other hand has the strange habit of looking good, but it's just not equal. And that's the situation we have in WoW. Asymmetry, because it looks good. And it sucks. |
| Posted 08-25-2008 at 10:23 PM by Alent |
| |  Its a broken mechanic which punishes people with latency for no reason related to their play ability. I targeted Mob X and did Taunt. It should come to me without weirdness happening. Theres too much weirdness that happens because of Righteous Defense for it to be a truely well-implemented tool. |
| Posted 09-01-2008 at 08:29 AM by Joanadark |
Recent Blog Entries by Norrath
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- On Paladin Taunt and Maggy (08-25-2008)
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