Hybrid Hate
Posted 02-25-2009 at 07:46 PM by Niian
Lately I've seen a fair few threads and posts hating on hybrid classes.
Having played multiple "pure" classes, and currently playing a hybrid class, I really don't get why people are so angsty against them.
Why roll a "Hybrid" class?
Enjoyment, diversity and functionality. I've got a paladin, hunter, rogue, priest, shaman and warlock all at or over level 70. Out of all of these I find the paladin the most enjoyable class to play. It's funner than all the others, not because it can heal, dps and tank but because it's different.
You shouldn't be able to <tank/dps/heal> as well as <"pure" class>
Why not?
Yes I can run off to Orgrimmar and respec holy or ret, but that isn't why I chose to play a paladin. I rolled this class to tank, and that is my primary function. I really don't see why I should be penalised because you chose a different tanking class.
All 4 of the current tanking classes can DPS so in my mind there is no "pure" tanking class. Warriors had their day in the spotlight pre-BC, but seriously where is the fun in the game if you are forced into one set class to do a specific task.
If I'm specced correctly then yes I can do all 3 roles, with the right gear to boot. But without the right spec and gear, just like those scrubs that hit 80 and instantly go into heroic (hey, my priest did that!) theres no way a hybrid class can put out the same heals/dps/tank as your so called pure classes.
We all play this game to have fun.
Being forced into a classisn't fun.
Having people say that your class shouldn't be able to do the same as their class just because you can do 3 other roles is obnoxious.
Don't get shitty because a prot paladin can tank as well as a warrior. As prot we can't heal worth a damn and can't put out much DPS (without gear), just like you can't.
We may be able to spec another role, doesn't mean we want to.
Having played multiple "pure" classes, and currently playing a hybrid class, I really don't get why people are so angsty against them.
Why roll a "Hybrid" class?
Enjoyment, diversity and functionality. I've got a paladin, hunter, rogue, priest, shaman and warlock all at or over level 70. Out of all of these I find the paladin the most enjoyable class to play. It's funner than all the others, not because it can heal, dps and tank but because it's different.
You shouldn't be able to <tank/dps/heal> as well as <"pure" class>
Why not?
Yes I can run off to Orgrimmar and respec holy or ret, but that isn't why I chose to play a paladin. I rolled this class to tank, and that is my primary function. I really don't see why I should be penalised because you chose a different tanking class.
All 4 of the current tanking classes can DPS so in my mind there is no "pure" tanking class. Warriors had their day in the spotlight pre-BC, but seriously where is the fun in the game if you are forced into one set class to do a specific task.
If I'm specced correctly then yes I can do all 3 roles, with the right gear to boot. But without the right spec and gear, just like those scrubs that hit 80 and instantly go into heroic (hey, my priest did that!) theres no way a hybrid class can put out the same heals/dps/tank as your so called pure classes.
We all play this game to have fun.
Being forced into a classisn't fun.
Having people say that your class shouldn't be able to do the same as their class just because you can do 3 other roles is obnoxious.
Don't get shitty because a prot paladin can tank as well as a warrior. As prot we can't heal worth a damn and can't put out much DPS (without gear), just like you can't.
We may be able to spec another role, doesn't mean we want to.
Total Comments 29
Comments
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Speak for yourself niian, In my current gear my prot paladin is pushing out 2.2-2.5k DPS in heroics!
http://www.wowarmory.com/character-s...yxia&n=Tarshin
Anyways i agree, people should stop harping about "pure" and "hybrid" classes. There is not a single "pure" tank or "pure" healer. Being slightly different but filling the same roll as another class is what keeps the game interesting for the people that have already "finished" a character.
TarshinPosted 02-25-2009 at 09:56 PM by Kedearian 
- The obnoxious whining regarding "I was good 4 years ago and everything thought I was amazing but now other people are having fun too QQ" is frustrating indeed!
Posted 02-25-2009 at 10:29 PM by Consecrate -
Tarshin - I was rather pleased with my DPS on Patch last night, hit 2.7k and 3.5k on Thaddius.
Normally in 5 mans I'm around the 1.5k-2k mark, but I'm only just starting to swap in DPS stats.Posted 02-25-2009 at 11:06 PM by Niian - I don't hate hybrid classes. I don't even mind that you 'can' so other things that my Warrior can't do. Or that in alot of cases you're superior at tanking due to having abilities that Warriors could only dream about.
What I dislike is when they (frankly, usually Druids) complain about not being the best at EVERYTHING.
It's called game balance. If Druids could do everything a Warrior, Rogue, Mage and Priest could do, then why play any other class?
And yes, I know you can't do everything at once. But you can offtank in any spec for a limited amount of time, throw a few heals on yourself or contribute more then a few pathetic gun shots during a ranged fight phase.
So basically, I don't hate the class. I just hate certain people who play it.Posted 02-26-2009 at 11:46 AM by Durandro 
- I dont like the trend of making all tanking classes effectively the same. It would be so much better if Bliz would make more encounters that were better suited to one class over the other. There is no fun if we cant each be good at something, or have a unique purpose.
IMO making pally mechanics work like other tanks was a huge mistake. There are so may more interesting ways they could have gone but took the easy route. Soon there will be little no no distinction between classes when it comes to tanking an encounter and that is the real sad part.
Hybrids should be able to tank but they should have to do it in a unique way. I wish they would bring player skill and class makeup back to raiding. There should be no better tank for an undead boss than DK or pally. Animal bosses should be the realm of druids, etc.
I think what you see when peopel bitch about hybrids is that they get to do everything and do it as well as a class that was made to be good at only 1 or 2 things. With the increased trend towards generalizing all of the skills and gearsets, specialization has evaporated. The game is trending more and more to an easy to play metaphor. it makes some old players sad.Posted 02-26-2009 at 12:04 PM by megalomaniac - The "hybrid" label is bunk anyway. Even the DPS only classes have certain specs that are used only for certain types of gameplay. Mages, Warlocks, Huntards, Rogues....they all have a raid spec and a PVP spec. Just like ALL the other classes. Our rogues are always messing with their spec from pve to pvp, just the same as i would have to go from prot to fury or arms. Simply because someone chose to play a class with limited function is no reason to penalize the people who wish to serve more than 1 role with 1 toon.
I don't understand why a "hybrid" class should be gimped in any aspect - when i spec Arms, or Fury, im not looking to tank. Im looking to bust #$%^ up with 1 or 2 large axes and enjoy the hell out of it. Why penalize that? Our beloved tree healers can also be damn good bear tanks or funky owl creature dps - why take away from their efectiveness in any aspect, simply because they can do all 3?Posted 02-26-2009 at 03:50 PM by Tasca - I don't think there should be any penalties to them doing a specific role, but more mechanics to limit them doing other roles. Sort of like the way a Bear can't heal unless they change forms.
Of course, that's rather cumersome, so general nerfs for basic ablities and larger buffs for talents may be the answer. So a Paladin tank is just as good as any other tank, but their healing is pants. Or a Resto Shaman is great at healing, but is very limited on DPS (though, let's be honest, they already are).
Really, though, I'd just as sooner leave everything alone and just hope that people stop complaining so much.Posted 02-26-2009 at 09:25 PM by Durandro -
Re:
As an individual who has bemoaned this issue recently (QQ'd, if you prefer), I'd like to point something out that seems to have been forgotten; and it is frequently forgotten by people who don't play warrior.
Warriors are currently being outperformed in a tanking role, under every situation, by a paladin.
This is where the moaning, grumbling, complaining and whining comes from - and I know how everyone loves those terms.
Warriors are currently doing less DPS, putting out less threat on single and multiple targets and are no more durable than any other class (druid health, loladin buffs, DK cooldowns) in equivalent gear. Of course, that doesn't include the fact that, as content moves on, they'll be gearing for endurance while I'm giving it up for more threat.
My next statement will open up the flame gates, but I don't care so much:
Most people love paladins because they are so easy to play. I've tried it. The reason I stuck with my warrior is because I love the way they do things and enjoy the challenge of it; I just couldn't give up my Revenge, Warbringer or Shield Slam if I had the greatest gear ever made on a paladin. But it's a fact that paladins seem to be doing both tanking and DPS particularly well, despite it being a class designed for children.
I've watched a very good friend of mine who loves his paladin do both tanking and DPS at level 80 (previously level 70) and it's as I suspected. If it lights up, you hit it. What's worse, you look imba while doing so.
THIS is my complaint. I resent the fact that ANY class should be outperforming one that requires a truckload more skill to play. Now I know most will dive on this and tell me I should stop crying, stick with enjoying my class and just get over it. But these people are missing the point:
Warrior players have no problem with other classes being as good as they are; they have problems with all other classes being BETTER.Posted 02-27-2009 at 02:13 AM by Zellviren
Updated 02-27-2009 at 02:15 AM by Zellviren (Addition) -
Envy and normal human reactions:
Put two kids in a room, give one of them two cookies up front. Then when in the room, take one cookie away from the kid with the cookies and give it to the other.
Now leave em alone.
It's very probably the kid who got a cookie taken away is gona fightand try get back the cookie from the other kid. Being mad at the other kid that he gotten "his" cookie.
And forgetting that I was the bad guy who took away the cookie, not the other kid.Posted 02-27-2009 at 03:15 AM by orcstar - I’m totally aggreed to Zellviren.
By myself, I have no problem that DK’s, Palaines and Druids are good Tanks, that they can do the MT Job really good.
But Actually I’m little bit unhappy, that I’m feeling that the Warrior is going to be more and more the last choice for MT.
The other classes makes more TPS, DPS, have more live and they bring better support.
Yes, Warrior is the only tank who has spellreflect – but to be honest, I do not think that they would be encounter in WoTLK where you can use this style.
Also my Thunderclap could be replaced by Paladine or Durid’s spells
My SunderArmour could be done by rouge etc..
Yes, at the actual content, I can tank everything without problems (only exception Satharion, but tanking Add’s makes more fun
)
I do not know which challenge Ulduar will brings, but if you have DPS Races like you had in Sunwell, the Warrior will be the worst Tank for this instance.
Yes, the 2nd Specc will came also with 3.1
But if the actual fury nerv will came as Blizzard told, It’s in question if it’ make more sense for raids to replace warriors with other classes, as warrior has not really that raid support at the moment.
I have no problem if there’s tank rotation, but then everybody should be an equal efficient Tank.
That’s the point lot of Warriors are frustrated at the moment.
Also I see that the huge problem is a mistake within the design of the game:
Vanilla WOW : 1 Main Tank Classes (Warrior), you had 3-5 Tankslots within the big Raids (40 players)
BC: 3 Tank Classes (Warrior, Druid, Paladin), you had 3 Tankslots
WoTLK: 4 Tank Classes (Warrior, Druid, Paladin, DK), you had only 2-3 Tankslots
The Tankslots are going to be less, but you have more and more Player’s who wants to tank.
This causes lot of frustration. In place of bringing this frustration to Blizzard, the Tank Classes will fight among each other…Posted 02-27-2009 at 04:51 AM by Strongbow - I agree w/ the post above, I as a warrior only have 2 options in a raid, Tank or DPS. And yes other tanks are out performing warriors on DPS and TPS to a point that is jst sick.
And , yes if they do nerf the fury warr.'s dps , what is there left for a warr. to do?
Really think about it. Warrs. are being replaced. Other tanking classes can do what warrs. do but they can do it better w/ much much less effort or skill. If they do not fix warrs's dps/Tps in next patch , then warrs. will be forced the dps route which is, "Did i mention the FURY NERF" which doesn't bring anything more to a raid better or equal to what a pally or dk can do. Warrior Tanking is in the toilet, and Fury is soon to follow.Posted 02-27-2009 at 08:17 AM by etakerns -
I have to disagree with Zellviren here. I don't know many paladins who picked pallies because they were easy.
I know alot of paladins who are disappointed at how easy paladin tanking is post 3.0 era. we used to have to be damned smart and damned good to hold threat on bosses vs good dps... not the lolsnore fest that we have now.
Have more to say but I have to leave for work, just thought I'd throw that out at first.Posted 02-27-2009 at 10:36 AM by Alent - "Warrior players have no problem with other classes being as good as they are; they have problems with all other classes being BETTER."
You must have hated yourself all through vanilla wow and most of BC if you don't like tanks that are "better" than others.
Who was the ONLY tank for Nightbane (before the changes to the fear mechanic) unless you had tremor totem or a couple of priests to chain fear wards. What about Archi?
Warriors have been the ONLY progression tanks for practically every encounter since wow was realeased.
I feel no pity for warriors.Posted 02-27-2009 at 11:56 AM by Akeber - @ Akeber, in BC Paladin was lot of better AOE Tank than a Warrior. Ok, there was view bosses only Warrie was able to tank, but Pala had also his specialisations (see Mount Hyal as Example or ZA was lot of easier with a Paladin Tank) Felmyst was lot of easier wit a Paladin MT (1 Tank for the whole Bossfight)
Our raid had in BC also Druids and Paladines as tanks, and they tanked bosses.
Sunwell for example Druids and Paladines was lot of stronger than Warries because of higher TPS.
That was strategy of BC
Now in WoTLK Blizzard said "Bring player, but not the class"...
Every Tank can theroticly tank every Boss - but if this is the strategy, than this should be valid vor all classes.
Paladin had never problems to find a raid, if he want (as Tank, as DD or as Heal)
If the acutal warrie trend goes forwad, then it might be lot of more difficulty to find a raid as warrie, doesn't matter if as Tank or as DDPosted 02-27-2009 at 12:39 PM by Strongbow
Updated 02-27-2009 at 12:56 PM by Strongbow - You're still all missing the point.
You're still all whining and throwing your toys out of the pram, someone mentioned they'd played a paladin and they thought it was easy, well, having played all of the tanking classes, I have some news for you.
They are all easy. Druid is the easiest by far because frankly, 2 button spam on bosses is not hard. Warriors are easy too, there's nothing complicated about any of the mechanics at all. Likewise, paladins are easy as are death knights.
You're missing the point entirely, this is an easy game, all classes are easy to play, you can be competent at playing any class with just a couple of hours of play, but to be really good there are a few things you can do better.
In TBC on a paladin for example, there were so many more things you could do to do more TPS than just wait for your 3 cooldowns to come off, you could dump mana for example, you could regulate your incoming damage by sitting or dropping holy shield for a while, there were a great many things you could do to make things better.
Unfortunately 90% of the warrior population flat out refuse to adapt to new things and THIS is the reason they feel gimped.
They all want to be the singular option for all tanking encounters and they want to be that single option due to being far and away better than everyone else.
Well, that's not going to happen anymore. You can take your out-moded pre-BC tanking style and shove it, tbh. Learn to play the game as it is now and stop whining, learn to accept that everyone else also has problems and honestly, none of them are that bad.
I kind of wish I could have been the one that got the preferential treatment for the last 3 years.Posted 02-27-2009 at 11:19 PM by Consecrate - Tanking with a warrior takes a high degree of skill - peroid. Anyone that says differently doesn't tank a warrior - or at least doesn't do it well.
Warrior tanking requires reading pages, upon pages, upon pages of forums/reseach. "Hitting whatever lights up" is impossible for us - its a priority system SS>revenge>shockwave>devaste and the possiblity of carpel tunnel from spammingHS/cleave. Also watching for demo shout/thunder clap debuffs to keep them active on the boss at all times.
Warriors that are tanking muliple mobs have to use movement to get the full benefit from Shockwave. On top of that knowing all the safety butttons (and when to hit them). It takes bloody skill.
I'm not saying gimp the other tanking classes - I don't like nerfs at all. I just don't want to see my class reduced to ash.
Honestly, I was ok with other classes tanking - because, at heart, I'm a fury warrior - and I was putting out really good numbers - not the top of the dps meters - but solid. But now there is talk of another nerf to fury - this one a flat 10%.
But to me a class that does less damage when tanking, with less ability to hold aoe threat, isn't right. The fact the DK's have multiple AOE abilities to hold threat when tanking. And Pally's have a full 360 aoe plus multiple other ablities to hold threat means I'm outclassed before we've even started putting the raid together.
I mean - if you were a raid leader who would you bring?
AOE tank vs. non?
Fury warrior vs. other classes that do alot more damage?
And don't throw that "You can OT!" crap at me. If our tank dies and I have to switch gear/stances and pick him up - unless he is at 6% or under - we are gonna wipe period. My talent tree (as fury) doesn't offer enough mitigation to effectively OT at the drop of a hat.
Rant off.Posted 02-28-2009 at 09:08 AM by Rasberry1 - Rasberry - tanking with a warrior does not require a high degree of skill. This game caters to the lowest common denominator. Excelling at anything takes interest. Getting the job done does not.
if you want to play a game that requires skill, try managing a 2 minute long, 36 ability rotation while managing your mana in EQ2; or go play a crowd control class in vanguard where if you miss a cast your group is probably going to wipe.
and by the way, my raid has three fury warriors and I'm quite happy with their DPS. Even after this nerf they will still be some of my best DPS.Posted 02-28-2009 at 02:28 PM by Alent -
Rasberry, coming from a warrior, tanking as a warrior does not really require any more skill than the other tanking classes. Every single class - let alone every single tank, regardless of class - should be reading, trying to learn both more about the calss and the bosses that they're going to be doing.
HS spam does not take skill - at all. You check if you have more than 50 rage, and then you just spam until you don't. That is not skill, that is button mashing, sorry.
We watch for thunder clap and demo shout timers. Paladins watch judgement CDs, go through their rotation (which, to me, from my little experience with seeing it, seems more complicated than our priority system). Bears watch demo roar (and prob'ly some other things, I'm not well versed in bears). Death Knights watch rune cooldowns, their rotation within those CDs, and they have to maintain their defence rotation, generally trying to get as little overlap as possible in their CDs.
Every single tank should move mobs infront of them, shockwave or no shockwave, because you will take less damage like that. All shockwave does is give us more motivation to do so. Our threat compared to other classes is generally fine. We're better off than bears currently, from what I can see, and the main advantage that a paladin has in their AE threat is that they can lay it down and have a steady gain. The downside of which is that their AE threat is going to have less snap. If I get to a group of mobs 2-4 seconds after a paladin does, chances are my TC + shockwave is going to pull a few mobs that they aren't focusing on - but if I don't have the rage, I'll then lose them. In the end, we sit about equal in AE threat to a paladin - in general.Posted 02-28-2009 at 02:47 PM by Nayre - Soooo....let me see if I get this right
Alent essentially said...
1. Tanking a warrior does not require a high degree of skill.
(I'm thinking a word I won't use on these forums)
2. If I care about skill I should play a different game that has a 36 ability rotation in a place called Vanguard???
(not planning on switching games any time soon)
3.Fury warriors should be ok with a 10% reduction because they still will have "acceptable" dps?
(I'm sorry I think ANY class would be upset if they were singled out for that type of a hit. Especially a class that doesn't typically top the meters - in PVE or PVP)
Nayre -
1. Warrior tanking is JUST as easy as Paladin/DK tanking? (I have a pally and a DK and that's just not true)
2. HS doesn't require skill.
(It does and a heat pad applied to wrist after any large raid.)
3. Our shockwave (cone - instant) is just as comparable as consectation and D&D and pestlience (360 degrees with lingering effect).
(yeah - I'm not even gonna say anything on that)
4. And lastly no one mentioned the difference in ability to do damage while tanking - at best I put out 2 K. I've seen DK's and Paladins put out up to 3K.
Yeah - I'm gonna stick to my guns on this - Warriors have been replaced by their replacements.Posted 02-28-2009 at 03:13 PM by Rasberry1 - Yeah, you need to re-read what I said. I listed two different games, not one.
And if you think you've been replaced, isn't that all the more reason to switch games?
Posted 02-28-2009 at 04:09 PM by Alent
