People think...(paladin tanking)
Posted 05-26-2008 at 07:26 AM by Nicki
That paladin tanking is like the easiest thing in the world, I mean just spam consecration right?
I ask you take that simplistic narrow minded attitude away and think for a moment how many CCd mobs are there on trash packs making it hard to or impossible to consecrate or how about keeping single target threat as a paladin you literally have to spam everything off cd to even do a decent ammount of threat. Let alone factoring in that you will have to change gear if your dps is evenclose to decent wearing 30% dodge gear in ZA will hinder you, while ive seen a full t6 feral druid tank karazhan in the same gear they tank 25 mans in...Or how about that t6 warrior tanking black wing lair 3 months ago. They had no problems doing these things but as a paladin I know I have to change gear or i won't manage and i'll still run low on mana.
But you only have to target one mob?
Not true generally I do tab target infact when i was playing around with my now 52 warrior I didnt find tanking alll that different, I was quite amazed by how easy it was and how much more room for error i was given low on rage use shield bash or revenge taking too little damage dont use demo shout taking too much put on TC and demo..very simplistic very easy to understand and pick up. Rotations are non existant at that level I agree id still have alot to learn at 70 but generally in 5 mans i was 'rage starved' it was still easier than my one button paladin tank, I took less damage too afaik and shield wall and last stand are invalueble.
More buttons does not mean harder to play. It only means your keyboard may not like you very much. What you forget is that as a paladin we have 2 things for snap aggro: Judgement (8 second CD) and Avengers shield (1 sec cast 30 sec CD), Try keeping those ready when you need to break a sheep or catch a running mob let alone having taunt on a 12 second CD is an absoloute nightmare...
So i ask you to think before you generalise saying xyz tank is easier because they have less buttons. Theres alot more micro management involved with less buttons...
Im not tanking but this came up in my guild chat please excuse the tone which may be a bit too aggressive and maybe I overlook things but Its my feeling that unless you've played a class to a decent level (ok so a 52 warrior isn't decent but ive got all the skills that a 70 warrior does bar intervene, spell reflect and commanding shout) what may look simplistic is sometimes a logistical nightmare.
I ask you take that simplistic narrow minded attitude away and think for a moment how many CCd mobs are there on trash packs making it hard to or impossible to consecrate or how about keeping single target threat as a paladin you literally have to spam everything off cd to even do a decent ammount of threat. Let alone factoring in that you will have to change gear if your dps is evenclose to decent wearing 30% dodge gear in ZA will hinder you, while ive seen a full t6 feral druid tank karazhan in the same gear they tank 25 mans in...Or how about that t6 warrior tanking black wing lair 3 months ago. They had no problems doing these things but as a paladin I know I have to change gear or i won't manage and i'll still run low on mana.
But you only have to target one mob?
Not true generally I do tab target infact when i was playing around with my now 52 warrior I didnt find tanking alll that different, I was quite amazed by how easy it was and how much more room for error i was given low on rage use shield bash or revenge taking too little damage dont use demo shout taking too much put on TC and demo..very simplistic very easy to understand and pick up. Rotations are non existant at that level I agree id still have alot to learn at 70 but generally in 5 mans i was 'rage starved' it was still easier than my one button paladin tank, I took less damage too afaik and shield wall and last stand are invalueble.
More buttons does not mean harder to play. It only means your keyboard may not like you very much. What you forget is that as a paladin we have 2 things for snap aggro: Judgement (8 second CD) and Avengers shield (1 sec cast 30 sec CD), Try keeping those ready when you need to break a sheep or catch a running mob let alone having taunt on a 12 second CD is an absoloute nightmare...
So i ask you to think before you generalise saying xyz tank is easier because they have less buttons. Theres alot more micro management involved with less buttons...
Im not tanking but this came up in my guild chat please excuse the tone which may be a bit too aggressive and maybe I overlook things but Its my feeling that unless you've played a class to a decent level (ok so a 52 warrior isn't decent but ive got all the skills that a 70 warrior does bar intervene, spell reflect and commanding shout) what may look simplistic is sometimes a logistical nightmare.
Total Comments 8
Comments
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This is the same for every tanking class to be honest. I have lost count of the amount of times someone has said tanking is easy, someone once said it was a case of just sitting there and spamming Sunders until the boss died.
Just let it wash over you, the difference between an average tank and a great tank are there depth of knowledge and the way they use there abilities to maximise the amount of threat done so DPS can open up more. And the only person you should have to prove your a great tank to is yourself(which means you will never think your a great tank, as there will always be something you feel you can improve on. I know that feeling)Posted 05-26-2008 at 10:30 AM by adrenalize 
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Like it or not, consecration when usable allows you to literally hold threat through AOEing... my class isn't even capable of doing that no matter how skillful I am.
So take the bitterness you get hit with with a grain of salt. When people that have tanked for years, successfully see a person that couldn't even play a warrior, play a paladin and succeed. You'll have to forgive us for the occasional snide remark and bitter statement.
I'm not saying every aspect of Paladin tanking is easy. I know it isn't, but multi-target tanking is. It's not only easier to do than that of a warrior, but inferior play still nets far greater threat results.Posted 05-26-2008 at 10:53 AM by veneretio
Updated 05-26-2008 at 10:57 AM by veneretio -
In my opinion, the greatest challenge of Paladin tanking is micromanaging your mana bar so you can chain pull without demolishing your stash of mana pots.
We've all seen the "Drink after every pull-a-dins." Not being one is a true testament to resource management.Posted 05-26-2008 at 01:30 PM by Alent -
I had a conversation about this with my warrior raid leader. He had made the comment about consecration spam being easy mode. I told him yes, consecration spam would be easy mode if that was all I had to do. In a raid environment where we have to balance threat and mitigation, it isn't as simply as popping consecration. In MH, for example, I have to constantly tab target to judge various mobs and attack others as consecrate by itself isn't going to cut it. Some waves I get the chance to do Holy Wrath, but not always, and honestly it rarely hits everything.
I find myself constantly watching Omen, tabbing through enemies, looking for the mob with the closest DPS'er so I can do some single target threat on it to boost my lead, then start tabbing again to find the next one.
In addition, I even try to keep up separate SoV stacks on each mob for added measure...more micromanagement.
None of that even goes into placement issues for consecration where placing the initial one in the wrong place (or having another raid member aggro the mobs away from it) can be very problematic.
AoE tanking can be a lot more micromanagement than we get credit for. Depending on your dps, you can't simply just spam consecrate and be good like some would imply, at least not always in a raid environment.
I think part of the problem is that it is easier for us than it is for a warrior or even a druid. The grass is greener there, and many times people turn the word "easier" into "easy" or "ez-mode". "Easier" is typically a relative term, while "easy" and "ez-mode" are absolutes.Posted 05-27-2008 at 07:51 AM by jere - I frequently joke with my girlfriend about paladin tanks being idiot-proof, both for the paladin and his/her group. But both of us have good tankadin friends and we know that optimizing the tankadin isn't a one button affair.
I'm well aware that paladin tanks take a lot of work, given that I make it a point to familarise myself with all three tanking classes (of which I have two) using EJ and less frequently lurking on Maintankadin.
With that said and disclaimed, I'll argue that to get a C+ for a tankadin in a nonraid instance is practically built into the class. But you pay for that, quite dearly when it comes to gearing for your first raid instance, while the warrior and the druid are "good to go" almost as soon as they hit uncrittable.Posted 05-28-2008 at 10:46 AM by Finelle - I'd really like to see what it's like on the other side of tanking, but to be quite honest, I can't even bear to level a paladin to 70... 60... hell, even 20. In that respect, I have to give you guys props.
Still, it's hard to look at abilities like avenger's shield, consecrate, and holy shield and not be more than just jealous.Posted 06-19-2008 at 08:04 PM by Archfiend -
Raiding as both prot pally and prot warrior taught me:
Its easier to tank as a pally - you have less abilities to use.
Its easier to tank as a warrior - you have more abiliites to use.
I can reverse the statements saying its harder too.
I worry about my postioning, burst threat and maintaining threat, perspective on situations. These problems I share whichever toon I play.Posted 06-25-2008 at 03:28 AM by Bosk - Hrmmm
Well a couple of thoughts on this. At high levels of gear, with DPS that can really ride your butt on threat when you have plenty of rage, it becomes an issue. Rage problems are harder to see at lower levels because you don't have a warlock cranking out insane numbers in your BRD group.
From a cold start, i.e. no rage, warriors have essentially nothing but taunt to work with. That alone makes AE tanking a bit harder since the mobs have to reach you and feed you some rage BEFORE you can put out the smack down.
Now, on a pally I see a few things. Concecration is very high mana cost. Awesome threat, but you are sucking down most of your mana on this ability every 8 seconds just to use it. Since you need to take significant damage to receive significant healing to get mana back that's a problem.
I think the Concecrate -> Auto-attack -> Judge -> Concecrate thing people snicker about is what it used to resemble, what unskilled Paladin tanks used to be able to do and tank 5-mans or Karazhan just fine. Frankly Warrior tanking at one point was little more than spamming Sunder Armor+Heroic Strike and Shield Block for most of classic WoW on single target mobs, not too difficult sounding amirite?
The current iteration of each class makes them more similar than they have ever been, but not without advantages to each that are undeniable.Posted 12-18-2008 at 11:28 AM by kolben
